Hetzer tests

[PoorOldSpike]

HETZER FRONT ARMOUR TESTS
All at 200 metres.
Note- I deleted all the Hetzers ammo in the editor because this was strictly a test to see how its front armour stands up.
(Anyway we know the Hetzers 75mm L/48 gun can easily penetrate the allied tanks)

FIREFLY (AP shot)
(I stripped all the Fireflies tungsten ammo away in the editor)
The Fireflies ripped the Hetzers apart, no problem, they didn't even need tungsten to penetrate the tough upper hull
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub2/Firef-AP.gif



SHERMAN 76mm (AP shot only)
The Hetzers upper hull just shrugged off the AP
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub2/Sh76-AP.gif




SHERMAN 76mm (Tungsten only)
Most of the upper hull hits were only partial penets but they began adding up and the Hetzers started to crumble
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub2/Sh76-Tung.gif



CONCLUSIONS
The Firefly is king against the Hetzer even with only AP ammo.
The Sher 76 needs tungsten against the Hetzers upper front armour but they're still only mostly partial pens.
The Firefly and Sher 76 can easily pen the Hetzers lower front hull with any kind of ammo.

[[hirr]Leto]

I think this example is misleading somewhat, as it was conducted on controlled conditions that did not take into account elevation or the angle of penetration involved. When hetzers are in defilade position and the angle of fired shells impacts upon a higher cumulative degree, the armor is significantly thicker. If the angle is reversed somewhat, penetration of the 60mm of armor is easily achieved, especially at 20 degrees or lower. The best players will engage you from keyholes and defilade positions, effectively increasing their ability to shrug off even 17lb'ers...

It also does not take into account the range of frontal and side armour hits that is very important to this AFV, as the narrow frame of the Hetzer has a very significant impact upon where the fired shell hits (front or side) depending upon a variety of factors.

Hetzers are very finicky beasts and they should be given due respect in regards of their complexity of usage when employing them. The best players can use them very effectively, and conversely, can destroy them very effectively with means that might surprise you, as they are surprisingly brittle in combat (bottom and rear armor make it susceptible to .50 cal kills or severe consequences from 100mm shaped artillery shells and higher exploding near it, or 81mm exploding on it with a top penetration).

What would be interesting, and I think useful for vets and rookies, is to test the front armor angles to determined covered arc percentages of hits on front and side, as well as defilade tests that increase or decrease the effective angle of shell impact.

That will give a more accuate recounting of the effectiveness, and weakness, of this little hunter killer.


Cheers!

Leto

[Bert Blitzkrieg]

Of course Leto has a point, but for the cost it is very difficult to find a tank which is tougher to KO from the front then a Hetzer. You often need more then one shot which gives the Hetzer a good chance to get a good killing chance himself.

Although I still remember my first PBEM game in CMBO all those years back, in which my Hetzer was knocked out by a Sherman 76 from quite a long distance by a partial penetration through the upper frontal armour. It didn't even get a shot off. For a long time I thought the Hetzer wasn't as tough in Combat Mission as it was in real life....

[Earl of Grey]

Very good point - since the frontal armor of StuGs and Hetzers is pretty thin compared to the punch of the bigger guns, you have to use them at range, preferably from 500m up. Then you stand a good chance of even deflecting an incoming 85mm round (though no 122m - those simply have too much punch).

[Jonny]

3) When you add MGs to these assault guns, then you have a VERY formidable tank. I have learned that this is especially important.
You can have AGs with armor and range to last a battle, but if they are not veristile enough to deal with infantry (i.e. a mounted MG is usually enough) then you are severely limiting yourself.



I find the axis assault guns MGs are usually only used for buttoning up enemy tanks and last ditch self defence against inf, their MG ammo loads are usually very low so you don't get much firing time from them