Flare guns and bombs introduced to CM titles. A good idea ?

[Denis the Menace]

I have just finished a night battle (CMBS).

I am actually wondering if it is historically a good idea and technically possible to introduce flares to CM titles and the game mechanics (WWII and Modern). If so special units (infantry), 2IC units, mortars should then be able to shoot flares up in the air allowing better/faster detection.

I am pretty sure we would play more night battles just for the fun of it !

However I have no idea how often flares were used during WWII and if those are still used today in contemporary warfare.

Anyone has a clue ?

 

[Badger73]

To the best of my knowledge regarding WW2, flares were only used for signalling and lighting up a battle area was done by indirect artillery (and mortar) illumination rounds. Night Illumination missions required a pretty hefty amount of pre-battle planning which included calculation, obtaining, and stockpiling ammunition after which Fire Direction Centers had to calculate times of flight so that gun crews could properly set illumation fuses. The only place they might be appropriate would be a night assault or a night defense. I'm not convinced that having them would enhance the game(s).

 

[Rico]

Flares fired from hand held flare guns were used for ad hoc lighting up of battlefield at night in WW2 — was quite common.

 

[Butterblümchen]

Looking at all the shading techniques that crafty players use to change the looks of their game, I assume that it's possible from a technical point of view? However, I don't know if the code somehow offers the option to alter LOS conditions dynamically during a game, and perhaps also just locally on a certain part of the map. Also, I think it will be pretty hard to let hills and other features cast shadows, depending on the "height" of the flare. But I think one can do without that.

For ordinary signaling, I don't think that flares are needed in the game. The player already has good-like view and does not depend on actual communication between his troops (of course sharing spotting info helps, but it just enhances the effectiveness). The god-like view of the player leaves no place for signal flares. Of course if you role-play actual communication or play with special realism houserules, it's a different matter.

From what I've been reading, I got the impression that night attacks were very common in WWII and are vastly underrepresented in CM scenarios. Quite understandably so, as not seeing anything doesn't make for a good playing experience. Also, as units would be blind, a lot of area fire would be needed, which poses troubles for the AI? There are also other factors that are worth considering in night battles: for example, units would quickly lose their orientation during the night. Could this somehow be represented in the game? There were also ways to counter this. For example, in some cases, tracer ammo was fired off along fixed orientation lines in regular time intervalls to indicate the attack's or unit's boundaries. Also, what about noise traps (tripwire early warning systems)? Heavy MGs were usually set to fire blindly - if neccessary - along fixed lines during night, which puts emphasis on grazing and area fire mechanics.

It's not just flares, by the way. In the fighting that took place at Bottacetto ditch between Catania and Primosoloe bridge, the Germans used the AA searchlights from Fontanarossa airport to light up the area.

 

[Bulletpoint]

Looking at all the shading techniques that crafty players use to change the looks of their game, I assume that it's possible from a technical point of view?

In computer games slang, "shading" usually means applying special effects to the surface of objects. It doesn't in itself affect lighting of a scene, nor the game engine calculations of spotting.

I don't know if the code somehow offers the option to alter LOS conditions dynamically during a game, and perhaps also just locally on a certain part of the map.

It currently doesn't, unfortunately. One of a long list of things people would like to see. For example, troops near burning vehicles are not spotted more easily than those hiding in the dark.

From what I've been reading, I got the impression that night attacks were very common in WWII and are vastly underrepresented in CM scenarios.

I thought night operations were so difficult in WW2 that only specialised units would do them? How would you coordinate regular WW2 infantry to even find their way in the dark, let alone engage the enemy without massive friendly fire incidents? Genuine question, as I am sure you know more about this than I do. No sarcasm.

 

[Denis the Menace]

 

[Denis the Menace]

The best ever French War Movie (Dien Bien Phu - 1954 - Indochina). No need for translation

Just think how our CM night battles would look like.....

 

[A Canadian Cat]

However, I don't know if the code somehow offers the option to alter LOS conditions dynamically during a game, and perhaps also just locally on a certain part of the map.

I can answer that. It cannot. The cool lighting effects from burning vehicles do not effect spotting of units in any way. Which clearly would have to change to fully support illumination flares and would be a lot of work.

 

[A Canadian Cat]

Night Illumination missions required a pretty hefty amount of pre-battle planning which included calculation, obtaining, and stockpiling ammunition after which Fire Direction Centers had to calculate times of flight so that gun crews could properly set illumation fuses.

Flares fired from hand held flare guns were used for ad hoc lighting up of battlefield at night in WW2 — was quite common.

Hummmm you both cannot be right. Need sources

 

[Butterblümchen]

Here is some night combat 101 from a german perspective: https://history.army.mil/html/books/104/104-3/CMH_Pub_104-3.pdf (nothing really spectacular or interesting in my opinion).

Of course orientation in the dark was a major problem. Operations during the night required very good preparation (recon, map studying, very detailed planning with clear unit boundaries). And more often than not, night attacks were aimed at very limited objectives (taking some specified ground), rather than going for a deep thrust manoeuvre. Night operations were not limited to "specialised units" though (who would those be?). Of course a myriad of things could go wrong. But I suppose it was still better than the alternative, i.e. attacking a prepared defender (whose position had to be taken for some reason) in broad daylight. In such a case it was the lesser of two evils.

 

[Bulletpoint]

Night operations were not limited to "specialised units" though (who would those be?).

Paras, Rangers, etc.

 

[Denis the Menace]

Paras, Rangers, etc.

Quick and easy example: airborn ops on June 5th, 1944 before D-Day

 

[Abbasid111]

But no illumination was used during those airborne missions right?

 

[Denis the Menace]

But no illumination was used during those airborne missions right?

I was not there but if I remember well some movies (The Longest Day for instance): yes. Although I am not 100% sure to be honest.

 

[Denis the Menace]

For those (like me) who are more interested in modern combat, here below a very interesting video