Is sighting in CMFI different?

[Nemesis]

It seems like sighting is a little different in CMFI.

I am in a game right now where my tanks cannot see other units. There is no dust is in the way. I have bright blue targeting lines to the "square" that enemy vehicles are on and to all the "squares" around it. There are no hills or foilage in the way. The distance is pretty short.

Because I can't see, I am using area fire to hit the "square" right behind enemy light armor and have KO'd a few vehicles like this. Luckily, I am facing light armor and it can't take direct HE hits.

I have never seen this in the other CM titles. Have others seen this in CMFI?

 

[JTimo]

I have never seen this in the other CM titles. Have others seen this in CMFI

Yes, had bright blue line to AS with tank, but couldn’t target tank. Frustrating.

 

[Nemesis]

Is there an in-game fix?

 

[rocketman]

Seems like one of those borderline cases. A screenshot would be helpful to assess the situation. I think the blue line indicates that one of the crew members can see that spot, but if the gunner can't, he won't fire the main gun. Is your tank in a hull down position?

 

[Nemesis]

A screenshot would be of great help to my opponent! LOL

No--he is not hull down.

 

[JTimo]

Yea, was awhile ago, but I don’t think there was a gun blocked issue. I could see my blue line directly under the center of the Sherman tank. Just couldn’t target the tank.

Speaking of this, is there any explanation of the dark blue line?

 

[Ithikial]

My understanding after all these years regarding target lines:
- Blue line = All crew (manning weapons?) can view and shoot the target. Very good.
- Grey line = Only a one or a handful of crew can spot and effectively shoot the target. Not as good.
- Dark blue line = Can view but get get a shot at that position. (At least aimed/reliably).
- Pink line = When the above dark blue line turns also becomes no line of sight to intended target.

Note that main guns may not be able to see the ground on top of a hill but will be able to see an eneny tank that shows up in the same spot, which you own tank will take a shot at under most circumstances. There was some debate months ago if these rules should also apply to on map mortars given you could expect a crew to purposefully target just behind the crest of a hill if they suspected enemy of hunkering down there.

I doubt the rules for spotting are different between games. The only way to test would be to have the same two vehicles line up with each other in both games, also keeping in mind time of day and weather conditions. It could also be a different version of the vehicle you are using in CMFI compared to say CMBN. The difference in optics could be a factor here not to mention crew quality and status. The amount of variables at play in any CM engagement is actually pretty mind boggling.

 

[Butterblümchen]

It's rather unlikely, but what about the terrain itself (not trees & bushes = foliage, but the terrain of the action square itself)? Are the enemy units positioned in terrain that obscures LOS (wood, high grass, etc)? If so, and if the vehicles have a low silhouette (not exceeding the height of the micro-terrain; maybe the case as you mention lightly armored vehicles?) and/or your own point of view is low to the ground, they might profit from concealment, just like infantry? Infantry can also be in a square that you can target/see, but can remain hidden/unspotted due to concealment? Just a hypothesis...

PS: http://community.battlefront.com/to...-gerbini/?page=3&tab=comments#comment-1748111 (this and the following post with diagrams - my theory about terrain & spotting in CM)

 

[Bulletpoint]

A screenshot would be of great help to my opponent! LOL

No--he is not hull down.

If you want, you can send a screenshot to me, and I'll try to see if I can figure out what's going on. wrylight@gmail.com

It's not a night battle though? Just to be sure.

 

[A Canadian Cat]

My understanding after all these years regarding target lines:
- Blue line = All crew (manning weapons?) can view and shoot the target. Very good.
- Grey line = Only a one or a handful of crew can spot and effectively shoot the target. Not as good.
- Dark blue line = Can view but get get a shot at that position. (At least aimed/reliably).
- Pink line = When the above dark blue line turns also becomes no line of sight to intended target.

Note that main guns may not be able to see the ground on top of a hill but will be able to see an eneny tank that shows up in the same spot, which you own tank will take a shot at under most circumstances. There was some debate months ago if these rules should also apply to on map mortars given you could expect a crew to purposefully target just behind the crest of a hill if they suspected enemy of hunkering down there.

I doubt the rules for spotting are different between games. The only way to test would be to have the same two vehicles line up with each other in both games, also keeping in mind time of day and weather conditions. It could also be a different version of the vehicle you are using in CMFI compared to say CMBN. The difference in optics could be a factor here not to mention crew quality and status. The amount of variables at play in any CM engagement is actually pretty mind boggling.

This is a good overview I will just add two things:

One I can confirm that there is no difference between spotting between the games. Keep in mind thought that the ability to spot the enemy depends on the units doing the spotting. All the way from an M1 (with its IR screens) being freakishly capable to the R35 buttoned up being nearly blind.

Two and this is huge - being able to see a location (blue line) does not mean a particular unit will notice a particular enemy in that location. This game does not have borg spotting like CM1 did but it also does not have Auto Spot(tm) either. Just from your description it sounds like your tank has a clear view of the location of the enemy Sherman it just has not spotted it yet. This is the hardest thing for some people to buy into but the fact remains that just because a crew has a clear view does not mean they will notice a given enemy instantly. Just like in real life.

Obviously trees dust and smoke (<alt>-k toggles that on and off - we have all left it off by accident) buttoned / unbuttoned has the ? been reported on the C2 network all effect how quickly your crew will notice the enemy. Factor in some randomness and you get the FoW. Our job as every level commanders is to give our unit the best situational awareness we can by maintaining C2, considering tree cover, choosing to unbutton at the right moment etc.

Having said all that one thing you can do - warning possible gameiness - area target at a location that will likely hit said enemy tank. That does two things - one it frequently hits the enemy with something and two tends to focus the gunner's mind on the time and place that is important.

 

[Badger73]

+1. Helpful stuff. Thank you all.

 

[Wellsonian]

This is a good overview I will just add two things:

One I can confirm that there is no difference between spotting between the games. Keep in mind thought that the ability to spot the enemy depends on the units doing the spotting. All the way from an M1 (with its IR screens) being freakishly capable to the R35 buttoned up being nearly blind.

Two and this is huge - being able to see a location (blue line) does not mean a particular unit will notice a particular enemy in that location. This game does not have borg spotting like CM1 did but it also does not have Auto Spot(tm) either. Just from your description it sounds like your tank has a clear view of the location of the enemy Sherman it just has not spotted it yet. This is the hardest thing for some people to buy into but the fact remains that just because a crew has a clear view does not mean they will notice a given enemy instantly. Just like in real life.

Obviously trees dust and smoke (<alt>-k toggles that on and off - we have all left it off by accident) buttoned / unbuttoned has the ? been reported on the C2 network all effect how quickly your crew will notice the enemy. Factor in some randomness and you get the FoW. Our job as every level commanders is to give our unit the best situational awareness we can by maintaining C2, considering tree cover, choosing to unbutton at the right moment etc.

Having said all that one thing you can do - warning possible gameiness - area target at a location that will likely hit said enemy tank. That does two things - one it frequently hits the enemy with something and two tends to focus the gunner's mind on the time and place that is important.

@Canadian Cat is correct.....a blue line to a tile doesn’t mean your troops have spotted the enemy in the tile. Sometimes it takes awhile. Also, this is fairly common in my experience. In fact, it has happened to me twice in my Quick and the Dead tournament semi final game.....against Canadian Cat!

 

[A Canadian Cat]

LOL - and I am experiencing same.

 

[JTimo]

Two and this is huge - being able to see a location (blue line) does not mean a particular unit will notice a particular enemy in that location.

So my experience occurred in a CMFI scenario that I played in a tournament a few years ago. My unit was able to see the Sherman, and did have a bright blue line to the AS directly under the center of the Sherman. I was aware of the spotting, and other possibilities that have been brought up here, but my recollection is that none of them applied in that case. The situation remained the same over many turns.

Sorry guys, but I can only believe this is an issue specific to CMFI.

 

[MeatEtr]

There is a confirmed issue specific to CMFI but this doesn’t sound like it. The issue occurs when AFVs block their own LOS from the dust kicked up from firing their main gun. Even 20mm guns block their own LOS. Targets most often have to be reacquired after firing. I think this is for ground conditions set to dry.

 

[A Canadian Cat]

So my experience occurred in a CMFI scenario that I played in a tournament a few years ago. My unit was able to see the Sherman, and did have a bright blue line to the AS directly under the center of the Sherman. I was aware of the spotting, and other possibilities that have been brought up here, but my recollection is that none of them applied in that case. The situation remained the same over many turns.

Sorry guys, but I can only believe this is an issue specific to CMFI.

I was addressing @Nemesis the OP's scenario. It sounds like you are saying that you had a tank that had a clear blue line to AS around a *spotted* enemy tank but could not target the tank. Is that correct? To figure out if that is a bug or has a cause someone would have to load up a saved game and check it out.

 

[JTimo]

To figure out if that is a bug or has a cause someone would have to load up a saved game and check it out.

Yes, we’ll my game was too long ago for that.

Because I can't see, I am using area fire to hit the "square" right behind enemy light armor and have KO'd a few vehicles like this. Luckily, I am facing light armor and it can't take direct HE hits.

Having said all that one thing you can do - warning possible gameiness - area target at a location that will likely hit said enemy tank. That does two things - one it frequently hits the enemy with something and two tends to focus the gunner's mind on the time and place that is important.

@Nemesis let us know if you eventually see these vehicles from your area firing tank, and if you think the area fire might have helped to cause that.

 

[JTimo]

Dark blue line = Can view but get get a shot at that position. (At least aimed/reliably).

Somewhere I thought I heard that this was an indication of where you cannot see the ground, but could see an enemy of equal height if one should move there. I remember in CMx1, the dark blue line often appeared to show the limit of what would be the bright blue line if you backtracked your targeting command to that position.

 

[Ithikial]

Somewhere I thought I heard that this was an indication of where you cannot see the ground, but could see an enemy of equal height if one should move there. I remember in CMx1, the dark blue line often appeared to show the limit of what would be the bright blue line if you backtracked your targeting command to that position.

Yeah that was what I was trying to elaborate in my post. But the height of the target will obviously be a factor here. Makes you appreciate those low height tank destroyers compared to a Sherman which is a 'skyscraper' in comparison.

 

[Butterblümchen]

Somewhere I thought I heard that this was an indication of where you cannot see the ground, but could see an enemy of equal height if one should move there. I remember in CMx1, the dark blue line often appeared to show the limit of what would be the bright blue line if you backtracked your targeting command to that position.

No, that's reverse slope (violet LOS). You get reverse slopes behind hills/rdiges, walls/hedges, and also ordinary terrain (like crops) - for an explanation, see the link I've posted above (#8). Many people underestimate how important and usefull crawling can be for infantry to stay hidden in your enemy's reverse slope LOS.
As far as I can see, it has nothing to do with the problem described in this thread though.