Soft skin vechicle or light armored? This is just silly...

Panzer_Freak

FGM Corporal
FGM MEMBER
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
89
Reaction score
61
Location
Sweden
Turn Rate
6+ pw
Games
2-4 games.
Is this a jeep or a light armored halftrack? They have to do something about light vehicles, they are to robust. The engine on that jeep would have been a swiss cheese by that point, but no, it keeps retreating with out any noticeable damage. Have had the same expreince mys self where enignes at light vehicle are totally untouched, even though the engine room had taken alot of hits from MG:s.

 

Panzer_Freak

FGM Corporal
FGM MEMBER
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
89
Reaction score
61
Location
Sweden
Turn Rate
6+ pw
Games
2-4 games.
Never seen that before.
In a CMRT-game one of my trucks had alot of MG hits to the engine room, nothing happened. Wheels and engine should have been wrecked, but no. This time I recorded it, this is an ongoing game with Bill - so I do not think he is to eager to share what kind of damage that did. But if it would be IRL that jeep should have a broken engine and been put out of action. I have not done any extensive tests yet. But I maybe should set up one to see the effects with more test objects.
 

Panzer_Freak

FGM Corporal
FGM MEMBER
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
89
Reaction score
61
Location
Sweden
Turn Rate
6+ pw
Games
2-4 games.
Any idea of the caliber of guns that shot at it?
The caliber against the jeep was 7,92 (MG42-team). The truck in the CMRT game was struck by a tanks MG34, and HE-shells exploding right infront of it (shrapnel should have streamed into the engine).

I have tried to count the hits at the jeep, 20+ hits in the engine room. In the turn after the jeep continued to fall back as nothing had happened.
 

2Dog

FGM Lance Corporal
FGM MEMBER
Joined
Aug 5, 2017
Messages
57
Reaction score
42
Location
England
Turn Rate
1-2 pw
Games
2-4 games.
The hits to the vehicle might just be graphics, something to let the player know that their vehicle is being shot at. Each penetration that's put through the damage model may not match up with the visual representation of what's being seen.
 

Bulletpoint

FGM Company Sergeant Major
FGM MEMBER
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Messages
419
Reaction score
401
Location
Danmark
Turn Rate
6+ pw
Games
1 game.
I reported this pretty thoroughly in 2017.



 

Panzer_Freak

FGM Corporal
FGM MEMBER
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
89
Reaction score
61
Location
Sweden
Turn Rate
6+ pw
Games
2-4 games.
I reported this pretty thoroughly in 2017.



Well, I'll go to the Battlefront forum and complain as well. I'll do it in the same thread as u started 2017 so it re-appears again. They have to fix this, they have so much realism but when it comes to buildings and apparently soft skin vehicles the realism is out of the window. Can not see why?
 

Panzer_Freak

FGM Corporal
FGM MEMBER
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
89
Reaction score
61
Location
Sweden
Turn Rate
6+ pw
Games
2-4 games.
The hits to the vehicle might just be graphics, something to let the player know that their vehicle is being shot at. Each penetration that's put through the damage model may not match up with the visual representation of what's being seen.
Well, of course that could be a thing, but I do not think it is visual. The penetration hits on tanks are not for visual but quite accurate compared to damaged recieved.
 
Last edited:

Bulletpoint

FGM Company Sergeant Major
FGM MEMBER
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Messages
419
Reaction score
401
Location
Danmark
Turn Rate
6+ pw
Games
1 game.
Well, I'll go to the Battlefront forum and complain as well. I'll do it in the same thread as u started 2017 so it re-appears again. They have to fix this, they have so much realism but when it comes to buildings and apparently soft skin vehicles the realism is out of the window. Can not see why?
I'm with you. Hopefully we will get some better answers this time than the usual contrived excuses like "He could be hiding behind the engine block" etc.
 

A Canadian Cat

FGM 2nd Lieutenant
FGM MEMBER
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
1,420
Reaction score
983
Location
Ontario, Canada
Turn Rate
3-5 pw
Games
5-8 games.
Email
ian.leslie@lesliesoftware.com
The biggest problem with the above situation is: it doesn't happen that way all the time. The vast majority of the time I loose my jeeps and trucks when they get into that kind of position typically most of their passenger are sent to their maker as well. So, there have to be some factors that create the situation that you guys have seen. Perhaps its just one shooter - like the damage threshold is too high but mostly you don't notice because three MGs firing in a jeep still take it down but if you have only one you can get these seemingly immune vehicles.

Please note I am *not* saying that is the issue or that I really think it is. What I am saying is that because most jeeps getting hit by small arms fire end up abandoned on the road with all crew and passengers dead there has to be some other things going on. Find out what those are and you will have something to get fixed. I look forward to seeing what we can find either here or at BFC.
 

Bulletpoint

FGM Company Sergeant Major
FGM MEMBER
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Messages
419
Reaction score
401
Location
Danmark
Turn Rate
6+ pw
Games
1 game.
The biggest problem with the above situation is: it doesn't happen that way all the time. The vast majority of the time I loose my jeeps and trucks when they get into that kind of position typically most of their passenger are sent to their maker as well. So, there have to be some factors that create the situation that you guys have seen. Perhaps its just one shooter - like the damage threshold is too high but mostly you don't notice because three MGs firing in a jeep still take it down but if you have only one you can get these seemingly immune vehicles.

Please note I am *not* saying that is the issue or that I really think it is. What I am saying is that because most jeeps getting hit by small arms fire end up abandoned on the road with all crew and passengers dead there has to be some other things going on. Find out what those are and you will have something to get fixed. I look forward to seeing what we can find either here or at BFC.
I tested it and it is consistent behaviour.

There are two separate problems:

1: The damage threshold for knocking out the jeep when hitting the front hull (engine) is arguably way too high. But I'm no army car mechanic, so I can't say how many bullets a WW2 engine should be able to survive.

2: The windshield is bulletproof, so passengers are not killed even with repeated bursts from the front. I think the same problem also applies to trucks, but I have not tested that.
 
Last edited:

MeatEtr

FGM Lieutenant
FGM MEMBER
Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Messages
1,937
Reaction score
1,155
Location
South Carolina, USA
Turn Rate
6+ pw
Games
5-8 games.
Email
wings76@windstream.net
I don't think there's a problem. Do jeeps/trucks get lucky sometimes and withstand apparently too much small arms fire? Of course, no debating that, we've all seen it! But how often? IMHO not enough to declare this broke or unrealistic. Majority of the time they get KOed within several bursts of MG fire.
 

Bulletpoint

FGM Company Sergeant Major
FGM MEMBER
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Messages
419
Reaction score
401
Location
Danmark
Turn Rate
6+ pw
Games
1 game.
Are their test scenarios? Forgive me if you already posted links. Forgive me more if you sent them to me and I don't remember.
I have the test scenario, but it's for CMBN 3.12. It was back in 2017 and I had not bought CMFB yet.
 

Bulletpoint

FGM Company Sergeant Major
FGM MEMBER
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Messages
419
Reaction score
401
Location
Danmark
Turn Rate
6+ pw
Games
1 game.
Just updated the test scenario and ran it three times, noting results.

Setup: Six FO jeeps in six lanes. Four guys in each jeep. Three jeeps have windshield UP, three have windshield DOWN

Tested fire from german LMG42 at apprx. 450m range. Directly from front. Jeeps prevented from moving by sticking them in swamp terrain. Ran each test for exactly 1 minute, then counted number of casualties (in brackets).

Results below:

1: UP (2) DOWN (8)
2: UP (2) DOWN (9)
3: UP (4) DOWN (10)

Conclusion: Much fewer casualties in the group of jeeps that had the windshield UP than DOWN.
 

A Canadian Cat

FGM 2nd Lieutenant
FGM MEMBER
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
1,420
Reaction score
983
Location
Ontario, Canada
Turn Rate
3-5 pw
Games
5-8 games.
Email
ian.leslie@lesliesoftware.com
Just updated the test scenario and ran it three times, noting results.

Setup: Six FO jeeps in six lanes. Four guys in each jeep. Three jeeps have windshield UP, three have windshield DOWN

Tested fire from german LMG42 at apprx. 450m range. Directly from front. Jeeps prevented from moving by sticking them in swamp terrain. Ran each test for exactly 1 minute, then counted number of casualties (in brackets).

Results below:

1: UP (2) DOWN (8)
2: UP (2) DOWN (9)
3: UP (4) DOWN (10)

Conclusion: Much fewer casualties in the group of jeeps that had the windshield UP than DOWN.
Nice - thanks - PM on the way to share that test file.
 

Panzer_Freak

FGM Corporal
FGM MEMBER
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
89
Reaction score
61
Location
Sweden
Turn Rate
6+ pw
Games
2-4 games.
I don't think there's a problem. Do jeeps/trucks get lucky sometimes and withstand apparently too much small arms fire? Of course, no debating that, we've all seen it! But how often? IMHO not enough to declare this broke or unrealistic. Majority of the time they get KOed within several bursts of MG fire.
Of course it is unrealistic when a jeep that is hit with 20+ bullets in the engine room and continues to work just fine. If it would happen at very rare occasions, I would be fine with it, but it does not happen at very rare occasions but from time to time. Which is unrealistic. Would not say this incidents breaks the game, but it is affecting it negative. No one has said it is occuring all the time, but it can be annoying when it does. Especially in a game where they have put alot of effort in making penetration values vs armor so damn good.
 
Top