Spotting issues after upgrades.....

A Canadian Cat

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Three recent issues with line of sight and line of fire I've had which have been a bit annoying.
The problem with line of sight needs a look over by the team behind the game and a patch.
Well I will take a shot at explaining these. They are all within the way the game works and intentional. From your tone I am sure you will not be pleased to hear but please don't shoot the messenger :)

No, it is not the "stupid line of sight coding" it is by design. Just because you have clear LOS to a location does not mean that you notice something there. There is no Insta-spot(tm) feature in the game. That is not how humans work - we don't instantly notice everything. I know our minds make us think that we do but it is not reality. So, when a team does not see something and you are yelling at them - it's right there damn it - that is how the game works. They are simulating the way humans actually spot things.

It is true there are some limitations this introduces and you can get some odd behaviour especially when units are close. It is also where we have trouble accepting it. We do understand when someone doesn't notice something 1000m away but we have a lot more trouble when the miss something 50m away.


That is not what the grey lines mean. It means that only some members of the team have a clear LOF to the enemy. They can and will fire at their spotted enemy - it just might not be the whole squad that can.


Yeah, I can see the complaint but again it is how the game is designed. Even if an enemy team gets out of LOS they will be remembered for a while before changing to a ? contact. Not to mention in this picture it sure looks like the tank is higher than the infantry. It could actually be that the tank crew can see that the enemy soldiers are still there even if they don't have a clear view of all their bodies.
 

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Three recent issues with line of sight and line of fire I've had which have been a bit annoying.
The problem with line of sight needs a look over by the team behind the game and a patch.

View attachment 17363View attachment 17364 View attachment 17365
In the first pic, the answer is that the game is more abstracted than it appears. We see a couple of trees with clear LOS, but the game sees "a square with tree density X". It calculated that in this case, your HQ doesn't manage to spot the halftrack.

Second pic, you're getting grey target lines to the enemy in the buildings. That means some of your men can shoot, some can't (because of lack of LOS/LOF).

Third pic, hiding behind a hedge only gives you a pretty big chance that the enemy tank won't spot you. But there's no guarantee. Especially at short ranges. Or: You could be playing against a human opponent who decided to area fire on the hedge.
 

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They are all within the way the game works and intentional.
And needs a change.
No, it is not the "stupid line of sight coding" it is by design..
Which is exactly the same. So the design is made with the help of stupid coding and needs a change of code.
Just because you have clear LOS to a location does not mean that you notice something there. There is no Insta-spot(tm) feature in the game.
You forgot to add "Not even if the enemy is a few meters straight in front of you".
Not to mention in this picture it sure looks like the tank is higher than the infantry. It could actually be that the tank crew can see that the enemy soldiers are still there even if they don't have a clear view of all their bodies.
The tank isn't higher up but quite a bit further away from the infantry men being shot at. And what makes things even stranger is that those men where hiding behind the wall and hedge and shouldn't normally have been spotted. The only answer I can find to that picture is that there was a pixel of clear sight in the hedge and the tank spotter saw them through that. I'm sure you're aware of that tank spotters often can see trough a pixel of clear sight among trees and what not no matter the distance.
You could be playing against a human opponent who decided to area fire on the hedge.
No it was against the AI and you see a puff of smoke in front of the tank which is a sign of it shooting.

That feature with tank spotters and their magic eyes on one hand and on the other hand the situations with infantry that can't see things in front of them, or around them, when they are among trees and often when they are crawling (moving slow) with an enemy vehicle a few meters away which they should have spotted or at least heard make it clear that the code (design) is wrong somewhere.
 

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That feature with tank spotters and their magic eyes on one hand and on the other hand the situations with infantry that can't see things in front of them, or around them, when they are among trees and often when they are crawling (moving slow) with an enemy vehicle a few meters away which they should have spotted or at least heard make it clear that the code (design) is wrong somewhere.
I'm not arguing against you. Just trying to help you understand the limitations of this game, as it currently works. I would also love to see improvements.

The only answer I can find to that picture is that there was a pixel of clear sight in the hedge and the tank spotter saw them through that. I'm sure you're aware of that tank spotters often can see trough a pixel of clear sight among trees and what not no matter the distance.
Spotting doesn't work like that. The game doesn't draw a line through a pixel-sized opening. It works by giving a random chance that you will be able to spot something through a number of squares of trees of a set density. But to us players, it looks like pixel peeping.
 

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Which is exactly the same. So the design is made with the help of stupid coding and needs a change of code.
Right, understood you are pissed off and disagree with the game designer. Facts don't change 'cause you decide they do. The game designer intends it to work this way therefore there is no stupid coding and there is no need to change.

I have already explained the philosophy of those design choices so I will not do it again. If you are interested in learning what some of the limitations are and gain some insight into the engine here are a few threads that you might find interesting.

Steve's discussion about the LOS through trees:

This thread discusses the internal cycle of spotting. The post linked here talks about CPU resources and the choices that have been made:

A discussion around one of the limitations (related to the above too) dealing with spotting in close. It is acknowledged that spotting up close and personal is a limitation. That is why people have more issues in darkness, thick woods and dense fog - because it is easier to get units very close to each other and this is where the game has limitations:
 

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I ran into a very strange (bt fortunate for me) spotting situation. Attacking as the Germans, there were several buttoned T-34s behind a row of trees. I was able to see them with my infantry but my tanks (PzIV) could not get LOS through. So I just hunted straight toward them, unbuttoned, and nailed them head on at less than 50m. It was weird that the T-34s did not fire. I assume maybe it was because I had AP primed and got my shot off first? Don't know. I do know that the T-34s could see, however, because they saw-and blasted-my infantry.
 

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I ran into a very strange (bt fortunate for me) spotting situation. Attacking as the Germans, there were several buttoned T-34s behind a row of trees. I was able to see them with my infantry but my tanks (PzIV) could not get LOS through. So I just hunted straight toward them, unbuttoned, and nailed them head on at less than 50m. It was weird that the T-34s did not fire. I assume maybe it was because I had AP primed and got my shot off first? Don't know. I do know that the T-34s could see, however, because they saw-and blasted-my infantry.
Difficult to really evaluate this situation without a video or at least some screenshots. But yes, the spotting can be quite wonky sometimes.
 
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