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The killing of Jochen Peiper

Thank you.

I found it by doing a search on Peiper. I just happened to click on it and read what people wrote and decided to comment. I have looked at other forums and registered, but never posted on them until this one.
 
I was in Wiesbaden, West Germany in 1976. Echo troop, 1st of the 10th Cavalry. I remember when Pieper was killed. I thought "he died with a gun in his hand." Good for him. and I thought, I think he got more of a chance then what he gave to the USA artillery unit he had murdered. And I think, I think that for all the wrong my countries enemies did to the people we cared for we beat the stuffings out of them. What dose that say for us. And I think of the young USA troopers fighting today that will spend the rest of their lives in a federal prision for a crime they commited in Iraq and elsewhere. Where is the fairness in that.

Mike s. do you researce at the library. When I was in West Germany I was there to defend the German people and their homes. Why? I think because they are good people. I would have killed a russian in a second. I hoped. Now, not so much.
I do help our troopers in war today and pray for their safe return, and hope they do not have to hurt someone. But if they do I hope they do it right.

I have had 50 plus direct family member fighting and fought for others. Before 1861 to the present. some are in Iraq today..

rommel

(he died for his people)
 
According to documents Peiper was not even there when the incident occurred nor has there been evidence that he ordered the men in his command to kill them. Unless, you point to what he said he was told about the handling of POWs. I don't have the direct quote, but can locate it for you if you want. The qoute can be understood different ways. You said Peiper had more of a chance. Do you mean becasue he lived longer? He had a weapon? What happened to the American soliders was horrible and it shouldn't have occurred, but it did. When Peiper was killed, it was not in a war. The war ended decades prior. Whoever did it had no business doing what they did. I understand about being angry at someone, but they crossed the line in my opinion.

Unfotunately, life isn't as fair as it should be. I wish it was, but it isn't. If a US solider does something wrong, beyond the rules of engagement etc, he or she deserves to get punished. Just like anyone else. But not by mere civilians. It should be handled by, as in here, the military tribunal. There is a reason why there is a military tribunal, why laws are in place. Since, you were in the military you probably know this. Peiper was handled by a military tribunal. The trial wasn't fair and we can see where that lead too. We cannot alter or dispose of what the United States has deemed to give people, even its enemies; military or civilian. The United States decided to give everyone a fair trial and that's how it should be.
 
He got what he earned.

Oh come on, not again - we already had that comment made a while ago. Please, guys, stop it. There won't be a common opinion on this topic, so everyone accept that and step back. How'd that be for a change? I'm really getting annoyed by this crap now...
 
But "he got what he earned" is not an argument but an opinion - and this kind of opinion usually leads to a series of heated arguments. I've got nothing against a proper discussion as long as it is kept civil and objective.
 
Don't worry about me I'm a civil individual. I'm not the type to go crazy and rude on people, particularly when it is on a discussion board.

YES! One for me......kidding. I really enjoy havign discussions. That's why I replied on this one and why I started the Rommel thread. If anyone wants to have a discussion/debate about history (hopefully its something I know) let me know. I enjoy getting my mind working!

Any more points on the topic of this thread?
 
friends,
We are of different opinions. fine. I do not wish to upset anyone with my views. I am an Americian so I am bias to what happened in WW 2. My Uncles fought in WW 2 and I heard many war stories about the war. None of my uncles hate the enemy of the U.S. A. But they did kill a great many of the Axis (japs). They fought in the Pacific and one was in Euroupe. anyway...

It was my opinion "Peiper got what he deserved". I also wish to add..."Justice was served". I love the german people and the german army ww2 and present. Peiper was a individual not a nation, Justice was served. plain and simple.

http://ww2fcom/wwii-general/10444-joachim-peiper.html
 
It would help if the link was suppliee coorectly - it's "ww2f.com" for those interested. And justice NEVER is served when people take matters into their own hands. The judges that set him free again certainly knew what they did. Or would you kill one German for all those who have been killed throughout the war?
 
In am an American as well and do not have a bias concerning the matter. And before it is mentioned I have had and still have members in my family and friends that are in the military.

I agree with Earl of Grey "justice [is] NEVER [] served when people take matters into their own hands." There are laws and trials for a reason. Peiper had a trial. The trial was not fair and after spending time in jail for 11.5 years he was released. The trial was a sham. And from accounts that I have read Peiper was not there, therefore he didn't do it, but was convicted anyway because he was the CO. Peiper was punished by a tribunal. Whomever killed Joachim Peiper took matters in their own hands when they had no right too. The law didn't allow them too. The people who did it are murders.
 
How about all those Waffen SS troopers and Fallschirmjagers that were murdered(shot even when they had allready surrendered or being wounded) by Allied troops(American,British and Canadians)?
Those were legitimate murders?Or there were excused cause it was the heat of the moment?
Why nobody was accused of those acts?
I ll tell u why, history is being written by the victors and all of their crimes are forgotten or washed away.
As long as Peiper was killed(murdered) in peace time this act is being characterised as crime/cold blood murder.
And sthing else are u familiar with Wernher von Brown?
He was a murderer or not?Why he wasnt punished as he was responsible for far many deaths and injuries than the whole Leibstandarte.
 
thank you for correcting me.

I do not and have not ever killed any one. I would sentence to death some one who has. I would hope the sentence would be carried out. I would not kill one german for all the people killed in ww2. ( 60 million ) and that is not the way the world justice system works, individuals are hunted down and brought to justice. Hunted down and brought to justice. Think of this...do you really beleive it was civilians that did the deed to peiper? God help anyone who hurt another. peiper was in the area of operation where the slaughter took place. It was the practice for his unit to kill pows. he was the commander. There is no "fine line" in this matter. political decisions were made for the cold war after ww2, some were wrong. GUILTY.
 
Cargol,

I have heard various stories of the allies killing pows and also heard the many of them never faced any sort of trial. War can bring the ugliness out of people. I agree that a lot of history is written by the victors. I can recall in school how we were taught about teh axis powers. And the horrible things they did. Now that I am older and looking into WWII myself I have come to a realization that both sides did some horrible things to one another and some really don't care about that. Some try to whitewash the winning side and portray them out to be almost like angels. Its sad that we learn that way.

Revenge, isn't an answer. Revenge led to someone being killed. Two wrongs don't make a right. It just makes matters worse.
 
Still, as I see it, he was responsible for not putting his men before a courtmartial - but NOT for what his men actually did themselves (the shootings itself), maybe even without orders to do so. If he ever gave such an order to shoot POWs is debatable, but he apparently admitted covering up for his men and not putting them on trial. But does that warrant his death? And a sentence, no matter how severe, may not be carried out by people not officially appointed to do so (and there wasn't a sentence in thisc ase so killing him was illegal, too).
 
cargol, yes you are very correct. there was a German U-boat commander the surfaced in the middle of a sunk allied ship he ordered the machine gunning of the surivors why was he not convicted? Because an American submarine commander did the same thing to a jap ship's crew that was sunk. Many many saliors and soildiers were machine gunned as they floated in the waters of the pacific. Hundreds if not thousands at a time by USA aircraft.

It is a interesting topic about peiper. justice or un-justice the deed was done. and that cannot be changed.

I reflect:

As we manuvered through the West German country side we had come stop. I was in my M-113 APC in front of me was my .50 cal. machine gun. I looked to my left front and saw a head stone. On it, was what seemed like, a 2 foot by 2 foot Iron Cross. Below that in what seemed like a foot tall date I read 1943. I have given that unknown soldier more thought than I ever gave peiper. I wish I knew the life of that German solder instead of peiper's.
 
"Think of this...do you really beleive it was civilians that did the deed to peiper? God help anyone who hurt another." Yes I do believe it was civilians who did it. Who do you believe it was? The government?

"I would sentence to death some one who has. I would hope the sentence would be carried out. I would not kill one german for all the people killed in ww2. ( 60 million ) and that is not the way the world justice system works, individuals are hunted down and brought to justice. Hunted down and brought to justice." Peiper already had his trial. That cannot be changed because you want it too. How is justice being served when he was punished, released and put on parole. And someone took it aupon themselves the kill him? So do you think because Peiper's death sentence was changed justice was not served?

As I said before he wasn't there, close by or not he was not there. And you cannot punsihment someone in a trial for something you are not charging them for. He was charged for killing pow's at the crossroads and not somewhere else. It was the practice of his unit to kill pows? Do you realize the men he lead was a fairly new unit. Made up of people from various units because some many of the units were small due to so many deaths.
 
Why -- by 1976 he was pretty much a forgotten nobody, only remembered by historians and SS vets...?

Perhaps his plan to write his memories had something to do with it. That sure would have attracted a lot of attention.
 
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