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The killing of Jochen Peiper

unique,
hi

It was 1976. the Nazis were being hunted down. even today they are being brought to trial. you do agree he had men women killed? he was not pardoned. and he was not forgiven. nor was he forgotten.
his unit may have been new, but he had a core of veterans. veterans from the Russian front. He was from the Russian front. The mind set was there. They had no time for POWs. The peiper unit was in a hurry and had places to go. lucky for us he finally ended up there. he may have been killed for a different mass murder. mass murder.

Lets ask the people who were killed.
 
Rommel said:
unique,
hi

It was 1976. the Nazis were being hunted down. even today they are being brought to trial. you do agree he had men women killed? he was not pardoned. and he was not forgiven. nor was he forgotten.
his unit may have been new, but he had a core of veterans. veterans from the Russian front. He was from the Russian front. The mind set was there. They had no time for POWs. The peiper unit was in a hurry and had places to go. lucky for us he finally ended up there. he may have been killed for a different mass murder. mass murder.

Lets ask the people who were killed.
Click to expand...

Lets try to have a sensible discussion...
 
RAF fighter pilot Robert Stanford Tuck shot down a German plane, its pilot bailed out into the english channel and Tuck dived at him and machine-gunned him to death in the water, he openly admitted it in his autobiography. His excuse was that the pilot would have died of cold, so he machine-gunned him to put him out of his misery, and he was never put on trial for it.
Tuck was Jewish so maybe there was a little hate in there..
He died in 1987.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Stanford_Tuck
 
I have no idea who he had killed and who he didn't have killed. You stated that his unit had the practice of killing civilians. I am taking that to mean since it was "known" his unit killed civilians, he must have naturally ordered the same for the American pow's. Thus he is guilty. Am I right or wrong on that assumption? That's speculation. I explained to you that the unit he was commanding at the time was new to him. The unit had not been together for a long time. And once again I have not seen an account of him ordering them killed.

I never said he was pardoned. Please go back and reread what I wrote. And to let you know just because he was not pardoned does not mean he had men/women killed. Once again he was put on trial for what happened at the crossroads not else where. And should be found guilty on that alone. Being forgiven depends on who you turn too. Some chose to move on while others had not.

So we will say he was killed for other reasons then the crossroads. Even if we are talking about a different reason (thus he wasn't punished) people had no right no kill him. It's still murder no matter how it is viewed. They had no authority to do what they did. The law didn't say it's fine that you seek vengence on someone. Regardless, in the end he was murdered. Murder is murder and it is wrong. You say he had people killed and that was wrong well someone killed him and that was wrong too. It is not justified. It cannot go both ways. There are few exceptions and his killing is not one of them.

"Lets ask the people who were killed." Your kidding right? If we are going to have a discussion, let's have a real discussion.
 
The kiling of civilians is a result of war..Dresden, London, Hiroshima & Nagasaki....are all examples of military targeting civil population.
 
dam but war is hell. the most powerful weapon of all........the human mouth.
 
back to peiper,

1. his units were known to kill civilans.
2. he had women and men killed.
3. villiage of Pekartschina 2,500 killed 3 captured.
4. pieper recalled:"that pow's must be shot where local conditions of combat should so require it.
5. pieper stated about his commander: "were all experienced officers to whom this was obvious" (killing pow's).
6. Kampfgruppe was not a new unit. they had new troops, the battle of the bulge killing follows.
A. 19 pows killed at Honsfeld.
B. 50 pows killed at Bullingen.
c. 86 pows killed at Malmedy.
7. by dec. 20th 1944 the 1st panzer division had: 350 pows were killed and 100 Belgian civilians were killed. all by pieper's command.
8. 12 different locations along peiper's line of advance.
9. pieper lead one such slaughter in russia. the civilians were killed and the village burnt.

pieper got off easy. he lived for 30 years after the dead. good for who ever executed him.

"The past is not dead, it's not even past- William Faulkaler
 
Can you provide the sites that you obtained your information.

Numbers 4 is the statement I was refering too, about possibly saying concerning the killing pows.

Even with this information, I stand by what I said concerning his murder. He was murdered and we all know that. He was killed by people. The law did not allow these men and/or women to go about killing Peiper because he was a commander during the WWII. Justice cannot be served by revenge and vigilantism. The government, has the authority to punish him according to the law. As said before murder is murder. No one has the right to push aside the law when they see fit.

His command was new, most of his troop had been altered. New troops added all the time due to so many people dying. Kampfgruppe Peiper may not have been new, but his unit as a whole was fairly new.

Let me ask you this question, we all know that the killing of pows happened on all sides. We'll take Russia, would you feel the same if a Russian man was killed by civilians because of his war record? The Russians actions presumably included the killing of pows and innocent civilians.

Maybe we should start a thread concerning various atrocities of both sides. It would be interesting to find out what we all know and feel on the matter.
 
number 4 is from google. I found it under the heading "A time for Trumpets". you are not going to like what you find. pieper was not murdered. period. he was Executed. period. he deserved to die along time ago. It was 1976. Do you understand young American. Justice was served.

pieper and his units were together a long time and understood what to do, what was expected.

I feel very strong that I was brain washed by my no our goverment to kill Russians. I was trained to cram a TOW OR LAW missile p their tail pipes. Do not ask me about how I would feel. The Russians slaughtered german soidiers. you will not want to discuss war crimes with me. of the 90,000 germans captured at Stalingrad by wars end 5,000 were alive. the germans and russians fought as our Marines and Japanees fought. both sides understood there would be no quarter given. I have met many Russians and have only found one i did not like.

read "company commander" or "Private" to see what americans did.
read "Flame thrower" to see what the british did.
read "Guadualcanal" to see what the japs and u.s. marines did.
read "take her deep" about the u.s. submarines.
read about the poles that were with the RAF.
read about the french underground.
read about the RAF killing their own spies to save other spies.
read raid on a gestapo HQ.
who was the first Kamakeez pilot? A brave American. God Bless Him.
 
Well, it is very clear that we're all biased to a greater or lesser degree. But frankl,y I think this discussion has become pretty pointless because we essentially have two sides and neither one is gonna change its point of view. That's a fact. Personally, I think we should keep to strictly military discussions and leave the philosophical/ethical stuff for others to discuss - we simply do not know the circumstances (especially in this particular case) so we can't really judge nor do we have the right to do so in my opinion.
And no matter if he was killed or executed, it was an illegal action. Would it have been legal, he'd been tried again (which obviously wasn't possible since he'd been paroled already) and punished acoording to teh sentence. If he wasn't just killed by some fanatics or ex-resistance fighters but somehow the government was involved that only makes matters worse. Much worse. We Germans wouldn't care, though, because my country doesn't want to have anything to do with those people, especially no SS members. [sarcasm on] We all know they were all vile criminals to the last man, don't we? [/sarcasm off]

P.S.: What do Kamikaze pilots have got to do with this, by the way?
 
The discussion was between two people having a discussion. I knew I wouldn't sway Rommel. But I like to write my peice. Life is too short not to have good discussion. :)

I do agree with you Earl of Grey that it would make matters worse if teh government was involved.

Oh, execute, at least here, means murder. So we agree on that! :) 1 down! :yo:
 
Rommel said:
pieper got off easy. he lived for 30 years after the dead. good for who ever executed him.
Click to expand...

Give a fool enough rope and he will hang himself. This is by far the most pointless discussion I ever had to witness on a forum. Are you really this stupid, Rommel, or are you just trying to provoke?
 
As a young officer in 1968, this American (pictured in 2009 aged 66) ordered the troops under his command to slaughter 104 civilian men women and children, and even joined in the shooting himself.
A helicopter pilot overhead radioed down to urge him to stop the massacre, but he ignored him and replied- "Down here I run the show!".
At his trial in 1971 he was convicted of premeditated murder and sentenced to life imprisonment, but because of the huge American public outcry in his favour, it was later commuted to house arrest and in 1974 he was a completely free man.
Any guesses who he was?
And what parallels can be drawn between his case and Peiper's?

william-calley2009.jpg
 
As per Rommel thinking President Lincoln was also executed not murdered and that was the fair think to do
as he was partly responsible for the death of thousants of Confederate soldiers.
 
Yes it was Lt. William Calley-

calley.png


His case throws up some interesting points for discussion, such as why were the majority of the American public on the side of a convicted self-confessed war criminal?
What was the difference between Calley and Peiper?

WIKI- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley

Some of Calley's victims-
My_Lai_massacre.jpg
 
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