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The killing of Jochen Peiper

Give a fool enough rope and he will hang himself. This is by far the most pointless discussion I ever had to witness on a forum. Are you really this stupid, Rommel, or are you just trying to provoke?

Hey goof stay with facts, if it's pointless stay out. I like the views of unique. He almost had me.
 
Here's a difference...Peiper is German and was convicted of allowing the killing of American pows and Germany started not one but two wars (They literally didn't start WWI, but close enough). And Germany committed genocide....Many people were angry at the situation....However, William is American and killed non-Amercans. That might sound harsh, but its a difference.

Rommel,

Are you saying honor is a difference between the two. how is Calley killed a bunch of civilians the way it was described honorable?
 
Well, it is very clear that we're all biased to a greater or lesser degree. But frankl,y I think this discussion has become pretty pointless because we essentially have two sides and neither one is gonna change its point of view. That's a fact. Personally, I think we should keep to strictly military discussions and leave the philosophical/ethical stuff for others to discuss - we simply do not know the circumstances (especially in this particular case) so we can't really judge nor do we have the right to do so in my opinion.
And no matter if he was killed or executed, it was an illegal action. Would it have been legal, he'd been tried again (which obviously wasn't possible since he'd been paroled already) and punished acoording to teh sentence. If he wasn't just killed by some fanatics or ex-resistance fighters but somehow the government was involved that only makes matters worse. Much worse. We Germans wouldn't care, though, because my country doesn't want to have anything to do with those people, especially no SS members. [sarcasm on] We all know they were all vile criminals to the last man, don't we? [/sarcasm off]

P.S.: What do Kamikaze pilots have got to do with this, by the way?

I wrote about the american pilot to make a point. that is and this is fact, of course some one my call me stupid ( I have a BA degree ) any who..
My piont is that one may pick one's path in life and some times in death. Honor or Dishonor.

The Ninth U.S. Cavalry knew how to deal with obstreperous indians.
 
unique,
calley was a murderer. he was without honor. disgraced. some should not be so obtuse.
 
Rommel,

For the information you provided in #107 can you please provide where you pertained it from.
 
I wrote about the american pilot to make a point. that is and this is fact, of course some one my call me stupid ( I have a BA degree ) any who..
My piont is that one may pick one's path in life and some times in death. Honor or Dishonor.

The Ninth U.S. Cavalry knew how to deal with obstreperous indians.

Perfectly clear. Although Kamikaze isn't about killing POWs - which I still think this discuaaion is about. And you bringing up Indians... well, that's an entirely different topic. And one every American should be ashamed of (but I do not want to start that discussion because it's still about Peiper.)

Anyway, no.7 in your post #107 very likely isn't correct anymore, because there is evidence that there weren't as many POWs killed by 1st SS as is believed and it became clear that quite a lot of testimonies were in fact wrong (seems to be the case sepcailly for the battle at Stoumont).
 
In civilised societies atrocities are not permitted in time of war, and anybody who breaks the rules of war is called uncivilised.
Also in civilised societies we're supposed to abide by court judgements.
The court released Peiper from jail after 11 years, so does that mean that anybody who disagrees with the court's decision is uncivilised?
 
And one every American should be ashamed of
Why? It was inevitable that they were to either be crushed or assimilated. I was at a Casino on Fathers day run by the Indians and they are doing ok.
Lord Bane
 
Why? It was inevitable that they were to either be crushed or assimilated. I was at a Casino on Fathers day run by the Indians and they are doing ok.

I hope they do, but, like I said: my opinion and not what this topic is about. But since Rommel brought it up, I answered. Nothing more, nothing less. This thread is about Peiper.
 
Excellent. So I take it that you agree with American exceptionalism and manifest destiny. Good job.
Lord Bane
 
Excellent. So I take it that you agree with American exceptionalism and manifest destiny. Good job.

I do not, but this thread isn't about discussing American self-perception. But obviously stating one's opinion isn't a good idea either in here.
 
Wait...I'm confused. First you said you do believe in American exceptionalism and manifest destiny and now your saying you don't....make up your mind before you post please.
Lord Bane
 
Wait...I'm confused. First you said you do believe in American exceptionalism and manifest destiny and now your saying you don't....make up your mind before you post please.

Apparently I misunderstood what you were actually saying. Please explain what you were thinking I have said and what you were referring to.
 
American exceptionalism is the theory that the United States occupies a special niche among the nations of the world[1] in terms of its national credo, political and religious institutions, and its being built by immigrants. The roots of the belief are not clear, although some attribute it to a passage of Alexis de Tocqueville,[2][3] who opined that the then-50-year-old United States held a special place among nations, because it was the first working representative democracy.

The theory of American exceptionalism is more commonly cited by conservatives than by liberals, and it has a number of opponents who argue that the belief is "self-serving and jingoistic," [1] that it is based on a myth,[4] and that "[t]here is a growing refusal to accept" the idea of exceptionalism both nationally and internationally.[5]

I had to google it.... seems a bit big headed if you ask me... but anyway... back to Peiper.
 
Yes, that's what I thought it meant. But if I'm right if ail to see how I could possibly have stated that I believed and supported that view.
 
You were commenting on how American's should be ashamed of wiping out the Indians. I commented that the Indians were doing fine and their plight was inevitable or self inflicted. Then you agreed with American exceptionalism and manifest destiny. Then when I complimented you on your correct position and line of thinking, you decided to change your mind. It is no big deal, don't worry about it. Just try not to constantly change your mind with each post.
Lord Bane
 
Bootie,
Like Earl was saying, American Exceptionalism is the belief that the founders of America were divinely inspired and that America is exceptional in many ways. Believers, like Earl and I, think that American Exceptionalism basically means that America is God's gift to the world.
Lord Bane
 
You were commenting on how American's should be ashamed of wiping out the Indians. I commented that the Indians were doing fine and their plight was inevitable or self inflicted. Then you agreed with American exceptionalism and manifest destiny. Then when I complimented you on your correct position and line of thinking, you decided to change your mind. It is no big deal, don't worry about it. Just try not to constantly change your mind with each post.

Ah, okay. Well, we then just have misunderstood each other. I can't agree, though, that it was self-inflicted - after all, they haven't exactly asked the white men to take their land away or to come to America in the first place. I can agree that they're now doing alright because they made the best of the situation.
Either way I do NOT believe in the superiority of anything or anyone, be they pauper or king. We were all created equal - what distinguishes us is what everyone makes of his life.
 
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