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TTB - Artillery

Great video! A really good visual illustration of the points you make, and a concise oral explanation too: excellent.

Thanks for making and posting.
 
After playing this game for years, I'm still learning how things work! Thanks @Valkatox
Two points I wasn't aware of. That you need a radio with an officer from the same company, and that a vehicle radio speeds things up because of direct communication.
 
@Bulletpoint and at @Valkatox At first I was not able to replicate the quicker mortar response times when using US 81mm mortars. The mortars would fire with only a vehicle radio but the times were unchanged. I did some experimenting with it and think I figured it out. The mortar team in the video was also the section HQ. The US mortar team I tested was just a mortar team. (The US section HQ was a separate two man HQ team with no mortar.) I think the following sentence explains the situation:

A vehicle radio with a mortar team section HQ gets quicker response times than relaying messages through the mortar platoon HQ.

So I think the video is correct. There is just a slight adjustment, to get the quicker time, depending how the TOE of the mortar unit is set up. Let me know if I missed something but I think that's what I'm seeing. Excellent, well done videos. The best video explaining game mechanics I've seen.
 
Yeah I should have stated that more with the command structure that it was basically taking a step out of the communication line. Looking back I don't think I explained that very well.
I was going to add about such but I figured I would start to confuse people with what I meant, I might re-edit that part with a note saying how reduced times work due to shortening the radio command structure as opposed to speaking with an individual unit.

Thanks!
 
I can't believe I played this game for many years without realising these points about accuracy and range.

Actually I thought having mortars off-map was a very simple choice, because they are cheaper to purchase that way. Now I realise that discount is not only because the actual mortar teams won't be available on the map, but because their accuracy will be much less.

Thanks again.

Edit: Is there a "sweet spot" distance for a mortar, where it gets the maximum accuracy? I mean, if it has to target an enemy extremely close, it would have to almost fire straight up, which I suppose would decrease accuracy? Or is it simply that the closer to minimum range, the better accuracy?
 
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One comment: When you use the TRP as the starting point for a line mission to a spot where you have LOS to, I believe that means you lose the special discount on the call times.

Basically you can target the area, but you have to wait the whole normal call-in time. Still useful of course.
 
I think with the mortars in terms of maximum accuracy it's a case of the closer the better. I just tried a medium mortar less than <200m from the target then and the fire was pretty much on target, like that in the video. I had the mortar drive down the road so it was around >1500m or so away and on the same target, it put a lot of craters up and down the road but not on the target.
I think it is modeled like that as in reality I believe the longer the projectile is in the air the more it's trajectory changes. Otherwise they would act like super long range sniper rifles... with more boom.

As for the TRP line mission the delivery time seems to be the same. Be it target on the TRP, TRP to TRP line, or a line from the TRP.
So long as the spotter can see the end of the line that's all he needs because he'll say on the radio something like "Fire mission line, TRP 2, line heading 245, distance 200 meters", as he doesn't have to spot or anything so there would be no need for any sort of added time.

But thanks for watching, I appreciate it!
 
About the oddities about infantry gun indirect fire, it could be a natural consequence of the gun being loaded with a cartridge (so it can't adjust the amount of propellant) and having to hit a spot close to the gun. It either has to fire directly at the target or at an extremely tall trajectory. And if the gun physically can't elevate so much, the only firing solution would be a shallow trajectory.

Probably the infantry gun could be able to fire indirectly if the target is very far from the gun. As the LeIG18 has a max range of 3550m, I assume that would be at a 45 degree angle. According to the wiki, it can elevate up to 73 degrees, so maybe it could fire indirectly at targets around 1500-2000m away ?
 
Valkatox said:
<snipped>
I think it is modeled like that as in reality I believe the longer the projectile is in the air the more it's trajectory changes.
<snipped>
Click to expand...
Yep, or more accurately stated, "the further the range to target, the more likely round trajectory will be affected by the meteorological (METT) environment prior to target impact". Remember that mortar rounds are lighter weight projectiles lofted into the air by smaller detonations than those expelling artillery rounds. In effect, the higher trajectories and longer hang times of mortar rounds means that they "swing in the breeze" for a much longer duration of time at longer ranged targets.

Kudos @Valkatox for such nice experiments and good analysis.
 
Badger73 said:
Yep, or more accurately stated, "the further the range to target, the more likely round trajectory will be affected by the meteorological (METT) environment prior to target impact". Remember that mortar rounds are lighter weight projectiles lofted into the air by smaller detonations than those expelling artillery rounds. In effect, the higher trajectories and longer hang times of mortar rounds means that they "swing in the breeze" for a much longer duration of time at longer ranged targets.
Click to expand...

True, but I assumed very short range targetting with a mortar simply meant a steeper trajectory, so the hang time would be the same - the bomb would just go nearly straight up and then down again.
 
Bulletpoint said:
True, but I assumed very short range targetting with a mortar simply meant a steeper trajectory, so the hang time would be the same - the bomb would just go nearly straight up and then down again.
Click to expand...

Yes and no, maybe, sometimes but not always. :shocknaz:
Depending on the model and type of mortar, the crew can add or remove some of the explosive charge propelling the projectile. A smaller charge will result in shorter hang time. So going "higher" or "lower" (time of flight) straight up and down may affect accuracy depending in the wind direction and strength.

Then there's the quality/condition of the explosive propellant to account for too, . . . maybe. Ballistics is such an arcane science to me . . . :cool:
 
Yeah I think much of it is to do with the explosive charge / angle as mentioned.

For a close mortar mission they would use a small charge setting and a high angle. As if they used a large charge to send the mortar round up, it would be inaccurate due to going so high and thus spending so much time in the air being affected by wind and other factors. Plus the larger charge would send it much further so you'd need a small charge anyway.

For a more long range mortar mission, they would use a larger propelling charge at a lower angle, giving it more range. As if a small charge was used at such an angle it firstly wouldn't fly very far, causing it not to reach the target and if the angle was too high it would again spend too long in the air due to the larger charge and become inaccurate. Still the fact the shell has to fly a longer distance would mean it is less accurate than a short range mission.

This short video can explain charges pretty well -


If you wanted to fire a quite short range indirect mission from a gun then the shells would need a small charge and the gun a high angle. So it would depend if the gun could actually aim that high up and had shells with a charge set to do so I suppose.
But if the enemy was that close to your artillery guns I'd guess you'd want to have them moved away back behind the lines, unless you were using them as direct fire weapons.

Sorry for babbling, but interesting to think about.
 
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