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beeftothetaco

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*Apologies if this isn't the right place for this post - I couldn't find a "General CM Discussion" section so I chose this one only because I own BS.*

As a new member here and a new CM player, I've been doing some research on tips for new players, the differences between modern and CW/WW2 titles in franchise, the PVP experience, ect. From this, two questions have surfaced:

1.) Is it a good idea for people new to CM to start with the modern time-period titles?

From what I've read (and experienced firsthand in my limited time playing BS against AI) modern CM combat is extremely fast-paced and punishing - it's been quite difficult for me to gain any real insight into how to best use my troops, what strategies to implement, what makes for good force composition etc. when everything dies so quickly that I hardly have time to figure out what I've done wrong. Everyone says to pick one's first CM title based on what time period/general scenario interests you most, which is what I did when I chose BS, but now I can't help but wonder if the slower-paced WW2 titles would've been a better choice for a new player like me.

2.) Is it worth learning/getting good enough for PVP?

I am very much into PVP when it comes to strategy games, so I bought BS with the end goal of getting into the scene. However, after doing some research I've learned that the interest in/playerbase of CM seems to have been dwindling for some time. It seems that people are either fed up with the engine, Battlefront's business practices or have moved on for other reasons. The learning curve of CM is among the steepest I've seen in a video game, and getting familiar with the mechanics and (given that this is a sim of sorts) military theory in general seems like it would take a significant time investment. If there are hardly any people to play against (nevermind people at my skill level) it would be hard to justify putting in the hours to get halfway decent- nevermind the steep cost of buying new CM titles or future BS modules down the line.
 
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In my opinion - PVP is the only way to go. Once I played a PVP, I have never played another game against the AI.

And there is still plenty of interest. Posting here or on the CM discord for an opponent will give you more games than you can play.

As to your first question - I dont really know that you need to learn first on WW2 games (although I did learn on WW2 games lol). If you want to slow the killing down a bit, play inf only or mech-inf only. Play red vs red or blue vs blue PVP. You can also play with green and conscripts infantry and only vehicles that have tires.

Thats my thoughts. And welcome to the game!
 
1. The modern titles are far less forgiving than the WWII titles, as in reality, modern combat is extremely fast and lethal. So mistakes are punished far more surely and quickly than they were in WWII.

2. PvP is where the game really shines, once you play another human you'll never go back to the AI again, for one thing you can play mind games with your opponent, use deception and feints, crush your enemies and see them driven before you, hear the lamentations of their women.... sorry what were we talking about again? :cool:
 
Welcome to the forum and you have raised some interesting discussion points.
As a new member here and a new CM player, I've been doing some research on tips for new players, the differences between modern and CW/WW2 titles in franchise, the PVP experience, ect. From this, two questions have surfaced:

1.) Is it a good idea for people new to CM to start with the modern time-period titles?

From what I've read (and experienced firsthand in my limited time playing BS against AI) modern CM combat is extremely fast-paced and punishing - it's been quite difficult for me to gain any real insight into how to best use my troops, what strategies to implement, what makes for good force composition etc. when everything dies so quickly that I hardly have time to figure out what I've done wrong.
True, as others have mentioned, modern combat does tend to be very brutal. The game is really a simulation that has been gamified. At least that's how I look at it. Clearly there are easy of use and simplifications compared to reality - the game part - but the underlying physics are meant to be as real as possible.

Everyone says to pick one's first CM title based on what time period/general scenario interests you most, which is what I did when
Typically good advice...

I chose BS, but now I can't help but wonder if the slower-paced WW2 titles would've been a better choice for a new player like me.
Maybe but my experience is while a mistake in a WW2 game you might not be severely punished in the moment it sets you up for more mistakes and you often end up in the same place. It is hard to recover from mistakes. The modern battles just get you to "I just cannot go on" place faster :)

2.) Is it worth learning/getting good enough for PVP?
Yes, a good human opponent is harder than the AI so giver your self some time to get over the learning curve.

I am very much into PVP when it comes to strategy games, so I bought BS with the end goal of getting into the scene. However, after doing some research I've learned that the interest in/playerbase of CM seems to have been dwindling for some time.
I don't think that is true actually. Some people did not make the transition from CM1 games to CM2 games and there was some drop off after the initial excitement then less people have taken up the modern games but the PvP level has remained pretty steady.

number of CM1 players > CM2 WW2 players >CM2 modern players

Since that also follows chronologically that could be where the feeling comes from. Plus the complainers often repeat it. Really the CM2 players have remained fairly steady over time.

I personally totally stopped playing CM1 when I took up CM2 - its just so much better. Once I played against a human opponent I very nearly stopped playing against the AI. Really, I now only play the AI for testing scenarios.

It seems that people are either fed up with the engine, Battlefront's business practices or have moved on for other reasons.
There are a lot of complaints and complainers around that is for sure. So what. Try to ignore them and play (I do with varying degrees of success ;-) )

The learning curve of CM is among the steepest I've seen in a video game, and getting familiar with the mechanics and (given that this is a sim of sorts) military theory in general seems like it would take a significant time investment.
Yes, it is. Yes, it does.

If there are hardly any people to play against (nevermind people at my skill level) it would be hard to justify putting in the hours to get halfway decent- nevermind the steep cost of buying new CM titles or future BS modules down the line.
There are lots of people to play against. There are more games on offer than I have time to accept. There are tournaments and campaigns here on this site. theBlitz runs regular Scenario of the Month games and now there are challenges available on the Matrix PBEM++ server.
 
@beeftothetaco

Having joined this site int he last 18 months, I've found the PvP scene to be thriving. There are always more opportunities for games than for which I have time.

Being good at PvP requires 1) knowing how to use the game engine and its limitations (sometimes it doesn't work like you think it would or should), 2) knowing the capabilities of the equipment and units, and 3) good application of real-world tactics and doctrine. I learn something new in each category, every time I play PvP.

I would recommended playing a lot of scenarios vs the AI first, to learn unit capabilities and the game fundamentals. Some scenarios are junk, but in the main, scenario designers are usually presenting a tactical problem for you to solve and giving you the means with which to solve it. For CMBS, I'd start with US scenarios or the TF campaign, as these are most forgiving. I still play about 50-50 PvP and Scenarios/campaigns, and with the latter I can bang out turns to my liking. Don't bother with QuickBattles vs. the AI - they are just like an elaborate shooting range.

Jumping up to PvP is a big step. You may prefer to find like-level skilled players to start, although this can teach bad habits. Getting crushed by a veteran can sting, but the good ones will be willing to discuss with you afterward and you may overall learn more. Whatever is fun for you is the right thing.

Shock Force 2 is the most forgiving modern title, when played as the Americans. I would agree with others that the WW2 titles are overall more forgiving, as lethality and spotting capabilities are lower. But you should play what interests you.
 
All sound advice. PvP is definitely worth it. I started on CMSF a long time ago, nowadays have all CM although i also mostly only play H2H by PBEM. Plenty of matches and organized events available. WW2 has a different pace to it and indeed more forgiving, I like the variety between WW2 and modern but I guess it's easier to go from modern to WW2 compared to the other way around.
 
Then welcome aboard @beeftothetaco !

To your questions/concerns:
1.)
Yeah it is right that you should play the titles that interest you more, be it the modern or WW2 titles. It is true however that the more modern the era is, the more unforgiving it gets. But as long as you play the US forces you should take your enjoyment out of it or at least the learning curve should be not as steep. If you got the basics of the game you can step up and play russians vs ukraine. And in the end you might feel powerfull enough to play russians vs the US. :D

For me my heart lies in the WW2 games ever since but I get my feet into the modern titles more and more. Hey, I can even finally distinguish a T62 from a T72...whhoohooo ! :D

Combat mission:Cold war might be the most balanced one in the modern era titles. The soviets have a slight advantage or are at least on par with the US force (depending on the time you are playing). At least the soviets are not that outgunned and outteched as in CMSF2 and CMBS.

2.)
Well for me the Combat Mission games were all about the PVP aspect. Especially because the AI don´t offer that much variety. Don´t be mistaken: It can surely kick your ass but it´s another thing to play against a human opponent, which actually reacts to your decisions.

I played the CMx1 games to the bone but Iam not that long into CMx2. I started my career in the new games just in 2018, where all the titles (except for CMCW) were available for several years now.

I played some scenarios and campaigns but quickly transitioned to sites like these and seek human opponents.

So is it worth it investing your time ? Yes of course ! And don´t you worry there are enough players of different experiences and skills, so you should find the right match up for you.
Yeah there are some players that are fed up and may leave the games...I mean the engine is very old now... But there will be enough folks around till a better game comes around or bfc releases CMx3. So you will have plentiful time to get going I guess. :)

The playerbase was never that big to start with but it is amongst the most helpful I´ve witnessed so far.
 
In your experience how skewed is the ratio between the number of CM2 WW2 and CM2 Modern players generally speaking (I'm aware that there is probably plenty of crossover between the two)?
At theBlitz site there are significantly more WW2 players than there are Modern players. You can still find an opponent but it's more than 2:1. Here it seems less of a difference but it might be hard to do a direct comparison. At theBlitz when a Scenario of the Month is setup there is one WW2 and one Modern battle. The number that sign up for WW2 is more than twice as many as those that sign up for Modern. Here though a tournament starts for a particular CM title. Lots of people sign up. There really isn't an opportunity to compare if people would choose WW2 over Modern when both are offered at the same time.
 
Hang in there, at some point there will be a new game engine. So when that finially happens, I do beleive it will bring some new life to the CM groups. So get improved with the present game engine and work on your skills. then when the new engine comes out, you will be on more even ground with everyone else and we all will be trying to figure out what works best again in the new system.

Its not the number of players that play these games that matter anyway. its the level of play that the game itself provides that makes its worth playing.
Even with its imperfections. It still provides things I have not found any other game able to provide as to a combat game.
 
I think the best thing to do is probably just to download the demos of the various games, both modern and WW2, and then try them out and see what you like best. The demos only provide 1-2 scenarios, but they are fully functional.
 
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