BB RULES

Panzerknacker

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Exactly what i meant. But friendly units may only help out, if theyre not engaged themselves and no enemy unit is next to them.

For the complexity part about casualties, isnt it already a nightmare to keep track of casualties for the attacking side if multiple companies are involved?

Also for turns it shouldn't interupt much in my opinion.
As an example :

Russian turn is going on.

3 russian battalions attacking 1 german battalion, one german battalion is in reserves standing behind the defending unit, the turn ends and the battle starts.

Now before the battle starts, the 1 german battalion in reserve behind the defending german battalion, could be send to support the battle if the german CO wants that.

He would only need to inform the GM (you) that they will help out. The Russian side wont now that, but have to consider that the defending battalion could be helped out.


Now if theres more than one supportable battle, lets say 3,the defending side could choose which battle to support.

Maybe theres tanks in reserve to try and counter enemy armor.
I think this would give more choices to the defending side and would generate battles other than being outnumbered 1:2/3/4/... and as mentioned earlier to give a chance to counter tanks, having the assault gun company in mind.

Just my 2 cents, I hope its understandable, english isnt my native language :2charge::D
 
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Concord

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Your English is very good @Panzerknacker.
The confusion was because I was initially thinking it was a rules clarification question rather than a hypothetical design question.

I welcome discussion about this idea, especially from experienced campaign designers @Rico and @Nathangun.
The idea is an interesting one, and here are my initial thoughts about it.

Firstly, the positives.

As you have pointed out, the casualty calculations would be just as simple if we were using multiple defending companies - the same as the attackers.

It would add an interesting level to the strategy and tactics of the campaign as a whole. You could have armoured units (and infantry of course) used as a backup support for front line units. As I understand it, this was actually a tactic used historically.

It would certainly make an attacker think twice about an attack. For instance (see the top image, below), 2 Russian units are adjacent to a German unit. With the current rules, if they attack that unit, they would be at a 2:1 ratio. If however (using your idea), there were 2 German counters adjacent to the target, and they supported the defender, it would create odds of 2:3 for the attacker...a disadvantageous situation.

In a situation like the bottom image, with 3 Russian units attacking...because the German companies at the rear now have enemy adjacent to them, they can't lend their support to the unit in the town. The Russians can attack with a guarenteed 3:1 odds. Interesting. But I'm still processing the implications of this.

supporting companies visual 01.jpg

Now for the negatives. Firstly, all the battle maps are about 1km size. Some of them have a lot of cover, but some of them don't. I'm wondering how it will work with having 2 or 3 companies in the middle area. It might be awkward and constrictive (I might need to set up some examples to test). There may not be enough cover on many maps. The attackers set-up zones might end up being quite close to the defender when the game starts. Is 45 minutes going to be enough time to play what is essentially a battalion sized match.

Will the rule change tend to bog down the campaign, making it harder for anyone to set up successful attacking situations. Much to consider, but worth thinking about and discussing.
 

Concord

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Another point occurred to me. If we did end up implementing this rule change, here's how the process would go:

Active side does their moves.
Active side specifies their attacks.
Defending side specifies their supporting units...publicly to both sides.
Attacker has the option to cancel any attacks before launch.

The reason I want it to work like this is because in Nathangun's Bulge campaign, there were numerous times he would go to the trouble of setting up a battle, only to have the attacker cancel the attack not far into the fight.
I want to avoid any wasted effort. This sort of thing may still occur in BB, but I think giving the attacker the opportunity to cancel an attack before discovering it is unwise will avoid much wasted effort in battle-preparation.
 

Concord

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Hmm, interesting. A Panzer and a Grenadier company attack a town...a Russian assault gun company comes to the aid of the town defenders.

Another possibility is to have the defender's support company set up on the edges too. Could cause a lot of headaches though, with units blasting at each other on turn one from the map edges. Chaos! :sneaky:

In this situation, the attacker, seeing 1:1 odds, could well call off the attack.

supporting companies visual 02.jpg
 

Rico

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Interesting ideas -- might add too much complexity.

The turns are intended to, when taken together, simulate overlapping simultaneous movement/punch-counterpunch over a set time periods, say 1 day or several hours.

One idea is for Mech/Mot units (only) that have only used less than half their movement allowance or not moved at all in their turn to be allocated a RESERVE status by their CO and then, once the attacker announces his moves/attacks, these reserve units can then move up to HALF their movement allowance to assist friendly defending units. (stacking limits throw a spanner into the works here a bit)

The attacking side can also assign RESERVE status to MECH /TANK units that have only used less than half their movement allowance or not moved at all in their turn -- these then can make an EXPLOITATION move to HALF their movement allowance after the battles have been resolved to exploit any gaps in the enemy defense that may have opened up.



The arrival of reserve units can be easily handled if the battles are built as scenarios and not QB's -- just have reinforcements arrive at say 20 minute turn or so.
This works with

With QB's, you could dedicate a dead ground set up zone on the rear map edge, reinforcements are plonked in there and can be moved/used by the owning player at only say turn 20.
 

Rico

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Can I make a small suggestion for the counters?

It would be helpful for the CO's to give the counters a visual element that easily identifies which Battalion they belong to.
The unit numbers are all either 1,2 or 3 ... so it all blends together quite a bit

Either change the tint of background colour slightly (within an approximate colour range appropriate for the side's units)

BB sample 2.jpg

Or perhaps add an element like a coloured border for units from same battalion.... like example below.

BB sample 3.jpg
 

Concord

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Thanks for the insights and ideas @Rico

Absolutely intriguing ideas in regards to the battles.
However, I am highly aware of the fate of many campaigns I have seen - which is GM burnout.
Although my mind is not made up, I am highly resistant to the complexity increasing.
The battle preparation in particular is a task that could turn the GM role into an unwelcome chore.
I need to think about this some more.

The counters idea is great. I like the borders one.
 

Rico

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Thanks for the insights and ideas @Rico

Absolutely intriguing ideas in regards to the battles.
However, I am highly aware of the fate of many campaigns I have seen - which is GM burnout.
Although my mind is not made up, I am highly resistant to the complexity increasing.
The battle preparation in particular is a task that could turn the GM role into an unwelcome chore.
I need to think about this some more.

The counters idea is great. I like the borders one.
I agree ... campaigns have a natural tendency to drift towards more complexity ... reign it in and keep it simple as possible and as manageable as possible.
 

Concord

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Updated the movement rules:

Each unit has set Movement Points: Infantry 4 MP, Armoured 7 MP
MP cost for all units: clear 1, town 1, woods 2, road 1 (2+1)

For every 2 hexes traveled along a continuous adjoining road, you gain an additional road hex MP 'for free'.
Only roads entered from another connected road hex side count.
 

Concord

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Updated the:

Company destruction and survivors

The maximum strength any company can have is 100%.
A unit which falls below 50% strength is considered disbanded.

If that unit is within 2 hexes of other units in its battalion, and the path to them is clear of enemy units (at the end of the current turn),
those other companies may receive a percentage strength boost of 10%, which is applied at the end of the current turn.

The disbanded unit must have at least 10% strength left to supply 1 other company, and at least 20% strength to supply 2 companies (with 10% each).

If one of the companies eligible for the boost is itself disbanded that same turn, the boost is not applied to them,
although the third company of the battalion would be eligible for boosts from both of the disbanded companies at 10% each company.

If a unit is forced to retreat but cannot due to no empty adjacent hexes being available (and therefore disbanded),
any adjacent companies from the same battalion could receive the 10% boost.
 

Concord

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Updated the:

Retreat

A defending company may elect to retreat before the commencement of a battle only if there is an empty hex adjacent to it.

A defending company may be forced to retreat, if they lose the center objective on the map by the end of the battle.
If there are no empty adjacent hexes to retreat to, the retreating company is considered disbanded (see also Company destruction and survivors).
 

Panzerknacker

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Yes nice visualization of my idea @Concord. (I've got no experience in doing it myself, heh)

Was just an idea to get battles a little more balanced and to give the defending side some options, the choice is on you as the GM, i think we will all respect that to keep the campaign simple and not too much of a burden for you.

Of course if both sides have the same strength in manpower its kind of a stalemate and one side has to make the first step.

Cheers :cheerso:
 

Concord

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SUCH a great idea. :cool:

With just me doing most of the creation though, I could see it easily getting out of hand. o_O
 

Concord

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Updated the:


Artillery (battalion and regiment)

These are the ONLY off-map artillery allowed in the campaign - no others may be purchased.
NO pre-planned artillery missions are allowed. No TRP's allowed.

Each battalion has off-map artillery it can use every turn. The artillery can be assigned to one company, specified by the side’s CO when battles are being allocated.
An infantry company must be in contact with its battalion (within 2 hexes) to use off-map artillery (this restriction does not apply to armoured units).
These artillery units are purchased after all normal company purchases are done in the selection screen, and must always be regular experience.

Russians use: Mortar Platoon Medium (3 x 82mm) + 1 Forward Observer Team
Germans use: Mortar Section Medium (2 x 81mm) + 1 Forward Observer Team

Each regiment has off-map artillery it can use every turn. The artillery can be assigned to one company, specified by the side’s CO when battles are being allocated.
An infantry company must be in contact with its battalion (within 2 hexes) to use off-map artillery (this restriction does not apply to armoured units).
These artillery units are purchased after all normal company purchases are done in the selection screen, and must always be regular experience.

Russians use: Mortar Platoon Heavy (2 x 120mm) + 1 Forward Observer Team
Germans use: Mortar Section Heavy (2 x 120mm) + 1 Forward Observer Team
 

Panzerknacker

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With QB's, you could dedicate a dead ground set up zone on the rear map edge, reinforcements are plonked in there and can be moved/used by the owning player at only say turn 20.
I think this could handle the problem with too crowded center objectives, requires some discipline though.
 

Panzerknacker

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Just one more question @Concord .

Does the free movement point granted for moving 2 tiles on a road count towards the next free point for 2 tiles moved on a road?
 
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