BB RULES

Concord

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Here is an example of the road bonus in action by the way.

road bonus example copy.jpg
 

Concord

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@Nathangun from memory you didn't place many restrictions on purchasing in BotB, right?
There was the points limit obviously, limits to armour, limits to artillery.

In your campaign, was there anything to stop players from buying say, a company commander and tons of on-map mortars?
I'm considering the impact something like that would have on battles and whether to place some restrictions to keep things sane.

What impact could there be to battles and the campaign if there are no restrictions...
An armoured 'company' of 3 tanks...and a dozen anti-tank guns.
Or an infantry group of just machine guns or mortars.

I want to keep any rules changes simple, but also stop things getting out of hand and becoming absurd.
The current rules limit purchases to only zero rarity. But that means both sides could still buy tons of ATG, MG and mortars.

Do I need to place some restrictions on specialist teams? I think quite possibly yes.
But the question is how to do that in a simple way, and in a way that still allows considerable purchasing freedom.

@Rico and others are welcome to give advice here too.
 

Nathangun

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@Nathangun from memory you didn't place many restrictions on purchasing in BotB, right?
There was the points limit obviously, limits to armour, limits to artillery.
Yeah, if an infantry unit was involved in a battle they could only buy infantry units.


In your campaign, was there anything to stop players from buying say, a company commander and tons of on-map mortars?
I'm considering the impact something like that would have on battles and whether to place some restrictions to keep things sane.
I remember during your command of the Allies, your ordered a probing attack and the Allied player (who will remain nameless, for now) bought a cannon company (off map) and a FO, very gamey.
 

Concord

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As a first step, I had a look at what costs are involved.
The points available to spend on an infantry company range from 500 to 1000, based on their strength in the campaign.

Typically, a full ('bare bones') Russian company costs about 560 and a German one costs about 750.
ATG is about 100, mortar about 50 and HMG about 40.

My first observation is that at full strength, these are what could be termed a reinforced company. Lots of room for support weapons.

Have to get the work day started now, so I will return to this analysis later.
Any ideas or insights into this purchasing limits issue, please post.
 

Panzerknacker

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In my opinion there doesnt need to be many hard line rules for this topic.

I would just appeal people to buy a responsible amout of support weapons.
So that its not possible to only buy a Cannon Company or only buy Mortars.

We could handle it like this:

At least 50% of the points spent must be the core unit type.

So for an infantry Company it has to be at least 50 % of what you called the bare bone Company core.
The other 50% points left COULD be spent on ATG, HMG or Mortars.

Cheers
 

Concord

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The percent is an easy solution.

Just examining it a bit more in terms of points (rough estimates)...

A full strength ('reinforced') infantry/motorized company gets 1000 points.
If the Russians spent 560 or the Germans spent 750 on a bare-bones company (9 squads, no support), then:
- The Russians could then buy 4 ATG's or about 8 mortars or HMG's.
- The Germans could then buy 2 ATG's or about 5 mortars or HMG's.

If we limited the spend to 50%, of total points (which is 500), it would allow:
- The Russians could then buy 5 ATG's or about 10 mortars or HMG's.
- The Germans could then buy 5 ATG's or about 10 mortars or HMG's.

Substantial but perhaps not battle-breaking.
 

Concord

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Updated the Quick Battle rules:

Purchase rules

- ONLY buy from the groups listed below.

- You can also buy from Specialist Teams or Single Vehicles lists, but at least 50% of your points must be spent on the core company.

- ONLY buy units with zero rarity.

- ALL purchased units must be Regular experience level. Max Motivation: High. Max Leadership: +1

- Do not exceed the point allotment you have been given for each company (which is based on the unit type and current strength – see tables below).
 

Concord

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@Rico @Nathangun @Panzerknacker

Hey guys.
Just having a last examination of some rules before things heat up.
I am indeed reluctant to change the rules much at this stage...but more looking to get reassurance on my design.

In the rules, a defending unit can elect to retreat before a battle, if there is an empty adjacent hex.
A defending unit will be forced to retreat if it loses the central victory location during a battle.

I included the 'retreat before a battle' rule to add some fluidity to the maneuvers...and I think it is somewhat realistic (that a company could/would retreat from a battle).

In the example below, Russian 1-1-1 is being attacked from multiple sides.
It has the option to retreat before battle to hex I10. Or it may be forced to retreat there after fighting and losing the central victory location.

I like the rule, and I don't think it will be game breaking.
However, it does seem a bit awkward in some respects.

For instance, are the company scouts good enough to realize a certain adjacent hex is currently empty?
Would the company retreat towards enemy lines?
Would they be able to move fast enough to extract?
Is it going to make companies unrealistically 'slippery' to pin down?

Hmm. As I said, I'm content to let this retreat rule stay as it is.
I don't want to stir up a hornets nest, but I am having some niggling last minute doubts.
Any insights?

retreat example.jpg
 

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In this special case I would say it's too slippery, we could argue that if one side completely encircles enemy forces, these forces can't retreat if being attacked.

But if attacked head on, and the defending company isn't encircled, they could retreat if wanted.

My 2c

Cheers
 

Concord

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Updated:

Retreat

A defending company may elect to retreat before the commencement of a battle only if there is an empty hex adjacent to it, and it is in supply.
The attacker may select one attacking company to occupy the vacated hex (optional).

A defending company may be forced to retreat, if they lose the center objective on the map by the end of the battle.
If there are no empty adjacent hexes to retreat to, the retreating company is considered disbanded (see also Company destruction and survivors).
 

Concord

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@Rico @Nathangun @Panzerknacker

Hey guys, another last minute thing has occurred to me I need your advice on.

So my rules state that each battalion has a battery of medium mortars they can apply to a battle.
Also, each regiment has a battery of heavy mortars.

It occurred to me that if there was a situation where there were multiple units attacking, and there were say elements of 2 battalions from 2 regiments,
that could be 2 x medium mortar and 2 x heavy mortar batteries laying down fire. Possibly more in some extreme situations.

Is this too much? Do I need to somehow restrict things, or leave them as they are?
At least pre-planned fire missions and TRP's are prohibited, so that is a mitigating factor.
 

Concord

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Rather than track Regimental artillery, I'm considering scrapping it altogether. Hmm.
 

Concord

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I have decided to remove the regimental artillery.

Each regiment has off-map artillery it can use every turn. The artillery can be assigned to one company, specified by the side’s CO when battles are being allocated.
An infantry company must be in contact with its battalion (within 2 hexes) to use off-map artillery (this restriction does not apply to armoured units).
These artillery units are purchased after all normal company purchases are done in the selection screen, and must always be regular experience.

Russians use: Mortar Platoon Heavy (2 x 120mm) + 1 Forward Observer Team
Germans use: Mortar Section Heavy (2 x 120mm) + 1 Forward Observer Team
 

Concord

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@Panzerknacker @Nathangun @Rico (and anyone else)

Hiya guys. Wanted to brainstorm any rules changes that are required.

Moving adjacent to enemy

I was thinking simply +1 MP for entering a hex adjacent to enemy unit(s).
There are other combinations possible (like +1 only vs armoured units, or +2 vs armoured units and +1 vs infantry), but I don't want to complicate things too much, or bog down maneuvering.
Armoured units have 7MP, and infantry have only 4MP, so I think +1MP per hex that's adjacent to enemy unit(s) should be effective enough.

A cap on units attacking into a hex?

When I made the first draft of the rules, I wanted to leave it open for players to overwhelm a hex, from any (or even all!) hexsides.
I'm just taking the opportunity to re-examine this.
This turn showed extreme examples. 3:1 odds with full strength armoured companies!

Few players enjoy being the defender with such odds, which is understandable.
And yet, strategically (and logically), the CO's will try and gain advantage by stacking attacks.
I don't want the campaign to become a series of frustrating 3:1 battles.

At the moment, there are 2 ways lopsided battles can be avoided:
1. A defending company can elect to retreat one hex before the battle starts (if it is in supply and there is an empty hex next to them).
2. The CO should attempt to minimize such situations on the strategic map (but not always possible).

I could make a rule that a maximum of 2 units may attack into a hex.
But will there be situations where the attacker needs more? Eg. 3 x 60% strength infantry attacking a 100% unit defending a large town.
One possible solution is to limit the attacker to a maximum of say 250% strength points. Eg. 3 x 80% units, or 1 x 100%, 1 x 80% and 1 x 70%.
That might work...although it makes things more complex (CO's working out possible moves and attacks, and the GM double-checking everything). Pfft.

Might be simpler to just say max 2 units in an attack.
If the attacking units are low strength, it would be a great opportunity for GM regimental assets to be added! :devilish:

Other changes needed?

Anything else I need to look at?
In a way, the rule set hasn't been fully tested yet, because there was only one turn of combat.
I'm pretty happy with the rules as is, but let me know if there's anything else I've overlooked.
 
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jobu88

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If possible without bogging things down, how about not being able to see more than 2 hexes from any of your own side's units? So neither side has perfect intel on exactly where all enemy units are, only those enemy units within 2 hexes of a friendly. Maybe with some abstract recon function worked in.
 

Nathangun

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I was thinking simply +1 MP for entering a hex adjacent to enemy unit(s).
Keep it simple, go with +1 MP for all units.

1. A defending company can elect to retreat one hex before the battle starts (if it is in supply and there is an empty hex next to them).
Not bad, but everyone could do this all the time. If you do there'll have to be a reduction in strength to the defender.

Might be simpler to just say max 2 units in an attack.
Go with that or units from the same regiment or battalion can only attack into the same hex.

My two cents, try to rename the units in the game please, the 2-2-1, 3-1-2, 3-2-1 system has, how could I put it, has no soul. Looks like code.
I'd like to ZOC's in the rules, but I guess I have to run my own campaign to see it. :)
 
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