CMCW 2v2 on new map

Lethaface

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Hi all,

@Bartimeus made a nice large 4x2 map for CMCW (https://www.thefewgoodmen.com/tsd3/cm-cold-war/cm-cold-war-maps/cmcw-map-shwartz-hold/) and @Aurelius came up with the idea to play this as a 2v2. Which is a great idea imo, hence this thread.

We would be looking for a 'authentic' game, not hardcat rules perse but a game with reasonable OOBs; no aircraft spam etc. Of course we will play to win, but having a good game with tactics and combined arms is more important. 1979 seems like a good fit. All other rules are to be discussed / agreed upon by the players. We are looking for experienced CM players, not necessarily experienced with CW but we both have played quite some experience with PBEMs.

The map will still need objectives etc added to it, which I can do but I think would be good to discuss the type of battle and objectives that fit the map.

I played a 2v2 in the past (or rather a 3v3, with a CO and two force commanders, where control over armor / infantry was handled by a different player). Execution was quite simple and straightforward: Side A player 1 makes his turn, saves it for Side A, player 2 who proceeds with his turn and than presses the end turn button and sends it through dropbox to Side B. Vice versa for side B player 1 and 2.
So it requires 1 dropbox per side for the save, and one dropbox to share between sides.

The game I played 3v3 was a small or medium CMFI game, in which we most of the time managed around a turn per side per day. For a larger game (and I think the map and CW setting calls for something larger) this might be a bit slower, also depending timezones of course. Perhaps it would be wise to have the same timezone for a team, but if nobody is in a rush to complete the game as fast as possible I personally don't mind either way.

Aurelius and I will share sides, we haven't discussed any preference for sides (US/USSR).

Anyone interested?
 

Lethaface

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Great! so we are complete (y) @Aurelius @olaf @JTimo

  • Sides: don't have a real preference, although I have yet to play a PBEM in CW with the USSR. So I wouldn't mind playing as Red. What do you guys think?
  • Battle type: Personally I usually don't favor Meeting Engagements, but on a map as large as this enough spaced out objectives it could work. Other options would be a probe or attack. I haven't examined the map in detail yet, but I usually think a probe is the the better fit unless the terrain is very defensive.
  • Battle size: I'll have a look at the force sizes for a large battle, we could even go huge but not sure how much points that would give us.
  • For rules I usually like as little as possible (although feel free to discuss any other ideas). For an authentic OOB I'd say about 80% points on infantry / armour (split reasonably even) and 20% on artillery and or planes (not exact numbers, just the concept).
Any other ideas, feedback, comments?
 

JTimo

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Just to add, I’m in U.S. East, so if that doesn’t fit well with other players, I understand. I have played 3 2v2 games, although the in the last one my partner bailed, and I had to play most of the game myself.
 

Lethaface

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Just to add, I’m in U.S. East, so if that doesn’t fit well with other players, I understand. I have played 3 2v2 games, although the in the last one my partner bailed, and I had to play most of the game myself.

I personally don't mind tbh, given the size of the game it won't be a very fast game anyway (I presume). And we all can have RL consuming our game time, holidays, festivities coming up, etc. So at times turns will be a bit faster / slower.
If anyone of us will not be available for a real long time or goes AWOL for whatever reason, I guess we could think of replacements (but everyone seems rather committed to this place / CM).

My next long holiday is (unfortunately ;-) ) only due for July / August 2022, which will be hopefully 3 weeks. Other than that nothing concrete or planned at the moment.
 

JTimo

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Any other ideas, feedback, comments?
For authentic OOB, I’d suggest picking a formation, and removing elements to get down to the point total with a limited amount of attached forces such as support elements like observers, air, and arty.

Have you decided on the pairing? I have no preferences.
 

Lethaface

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For authentic OOB, I’d suggest picking a formation, and removing elements to get down to the point total with a limited amount of attached forces such as support elements like observers, air, and arty.

Have you decided on the pairing? I have no preferences.

You will join up forces with the CMBS FW tournament winner, @olaf :D. For Red/Blue let's see what Olaf and Aurelius say.
 

Lethaface

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For authentic OOB, I’d suggest picking a formation, and removing elements to get down to the point total with a limited amount of attached forces such as support elements like observers, air, and arty.

Have you decided on the pairing? I have no preferences.

Sounds good. I think both sides have taskforces with combined arms available? I'll have a look in the game later. Another question: does everyone have the Steam version installed? I think the new version has some nice fixes in it, although I presume the BFC patch will also come out any day.
 

Aurelius

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I was thinking about attack/probe, with a steady progression of phases, so people can actually do the recon, commit to an attack and so on.

I have no preference really, but I think the US side is slightly more difficult.

I have the BFC version, too.
 

Lethaface

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Ok! I also have BFC version but used that to request the steam key through slitherine (just created account here https://www.slitherine.com/ and entered BFC serial). Playing without patch is not a deal breaker in my opinion, but the patch has some fixes for QB availability and prices.

Anyway I will put some objectives on the map for a Red probe/attack and post screens here. So USSR (Aurelius/me) attack/probe US (Olaf/Jtimo)?
 

Redwolf

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Ok! I also have BFC version but used that to request the steam key through slitherine (just created account here https://www.slitherine.com/ and entered BFC serial). Playing without patch is not a deal breaker in my opinion, but the patch has some fixes for QB availability and prices.

Anyway I will put some objectives on the map for a Red probe/attack and post screens here. So USSR (Aurelius/me) attack/probe US (Olaf/Jtimo)?

You can also install the Matrix distribution, which is 1.02 but doesn't require that you use Steam. For the Steam haters.

Having said that, no solution for Mac players.
 

JTimo

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One other thought/question. Can we restrict all force selections to typical? So that means soft-factors as well, but maybe not equipment choices. What do you guys think?
 

Lethaface

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One other thought/question. Can we restrict all force selections to typical? So that means soft-factors as well, but maybe not equipment choices. What do you guys think?

Have just been looking through the editor and QB screen. Roughly that will mean more amount of forces but lesser quality for USSR vs less forces but more quality for USA (on average). I'm not against it, there seems enough variety and if you get a 'bad roll' with all green HQs and -2 leadership you can always delete the formation and try another one. I would be up for allowing to change equipment choices, because they seem also random between every purchase.

To accentuate the typical force selection, we could also give USSR:

* Relatively more points for objectives
* Relatively less points for keeping own units alive / destroying enemy

While USA get's
* relatively less points for objectives
* relatively more points for keeping own units alive / destroying enemy

Just some ideas, not sure how it will work out and I don't want to spend to much time with point calculations stuff that is only visible on the end screen. But I thought could be nice to reward RED more for a breakthrough at all costs, while Blue has incentive to keep their forces alive?

Setup zones (concept)
I had a little go in the editor and roughly painted the setup zones which I would think interesting (don't mind the objectives in this screens):




Objectives (concept)
I painted some possible objectives on the map, which sort of looked natural:


In this screenshot all objectives are occupy except for 'breakthrough' which is a touch objective.

After a bit of thought, I was thinking a phaseline of some sorts could be interesting as a simple objective for USSR. Red has to reach the phaseline and breakthrough at all cost. Blue needs to put a stop to that. Could make the objective score easy to setup as well :). The reason behind that thought would be to let the decision for what is Key Terrain remain with the players, instead of forcing either USA/USSR to go and occupy parts of the map.

Edit: if we want to allow recon phase I think 1:30 - 2:00 is a reasonable duration.

Forces
I had a look at a Red Probe and selected some typical forces. Mind that on average these have quite better soft factors for USA:

13540 points for USSR


9060 points for USA



That looks quite reasonable imo. A greenish battalion task force for Red with some artillery and air, against a Blue combined arms force with two platoons of tanks, a mech inf company(+) + ATGM vehicles, artillery, mortars and some Cobra's (edit: obviously defender could choose to dismount much of the infantry / delete transports and get more infantry).

The terrain does offer very good defensive opportunities.

An attack would be 14100 points for USSR attacker VS 8500 for defender.

--
All this is just concept, what do you guys think?

Edit: I added the work in progress as a .zip.
 

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JTimo

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Great work! Will need some time to review to provide my opinion / suggestions.
Based on @Aurelius’ earlier statement,
I was wondering if there would be a way to break this up into phases. Probably too complex, but was hoping to get some ideas. Not for now, but might be something we could try in the future.
 
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