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Fortifications

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Erdeljanus

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So, do you guys use fortifications (sandbags, foxholes, mines...) in your QB games?

If so, how do you use them, where do you put them and how many?

Is the added protection worth the lower concealment? I found that foxholes and sandbags are easy to spot, while playing some campaign missions, so they can be easy targets for mortar missions.

Is it better to spend the points on fortifications or just get an extra platoon of infantry and hide them in the woods?
 
I see...that kinda sadens me a bit to be honest. I thought that foxholes and trenches had more protective value.
 
Nathangun said:
Unfortunately trenches, foxholes and ATG's which should be hard to spot are easily spotted from a far distance and when spotted your opponent lobs HE at them.

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Yeah, well that could only be countered by some agreed rules between opponents. It's a shame that it isn't coded. I also feel that CMx2 is missing the option to dig in the guns too much.
 
Erdeljanus said:
I also feel that CMx2 is missing the option to dig in the guns too much.
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I wish there was an option to 'dig in' ATG, FGs, etc at the start of a QB or even by the Scenario Designers... Let them dig them in and give them about 25 degree Field of Fire... but make them a little tougher against direct fire....It seems everytime I get a ATG with less then a 'High' resolve the troops just abandon it on the first close kaplunk... :)
 
TeddyR said:
I wish there was an option to 'dig in' ATG, FGs, etc at the start of a QB or even by the Scenario Designers... Let them dig them in and give them about 25 degree Field of Fire... but make them a little tougher against direct fire....It seems everytime I get a ATG with less then a 'High' resolve the troops just abandon it on the first close kaplunk... :)
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With my stupendous techniques at hiding them, I always choose a dead one from the units tab, i don't know how :-D
 
Erdeljanus said:
With my stupendous techniques at hiding them, I always choose a dead one from the units tab, i don't know how :-D
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lol... I do believe ATGs etc are considered Vehicles, so look at Vehicle Status for them when picking... I don't have access to my gaming rig as the AC guy is here I have split units and the upstairs isn't working so it freakin hot... but that is funny....

To answer your initial question, I use a lot of mixed mines and wire on defense to try and slow down avenues of advance (sometimes a well placed LMG is all you need to cover an area)... If you have off map Arty or ATG or FG's then TRPs are a must... at 50 pts they are steep, but for Quick responding Arty or Deadly accurate ATGs they work great... Bunkers to me are useless... never bought Hedgehogs (though he seems like a good dude @Hedgehog )

Now remember my lifetime winning percent is about 8... yes 8 percent...lol... but then again a lot of what I do when playing is trying to figure out what else I can learn about making competitive scenarios/campaigns... or is that just my excuse...
 
@Fredrocker I'm a bit late to this thread but just to confirm in my own mind what you've said. AT and Infantry guns firing at a target near a TRP are more likely to get hits on that target in less time as opposed to a target not near a TRP?
 
Josey Wales said:
@Fredrocker I'm a bit late to this thread but just to confirm in my own mind what you've said. AT and Infantry guns firing at a target near a TRP are more likely to get hits on that target in less time as opposed to a target not near a TRP?
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If the AT or INF gun hasn't moved since the Start of the Scenario and has LOS to the TRP, then Yes, they seem to be on-target, quicker, etc within a small range of say about 40-50m of the TRP... very much like the old Direct Fire on a TRP in CMx1...

From the 4.0 Game Engine manual:
"Note: A special situation is the targeting of an enemy unit near a TRP (Target Reference Point). In CMx2, these double-function not only for artillery sup- port fire, but also as “ambush markers”. Soldiers targeting an enemy unit near a friendly TRP are much better at estimating the range correctly"
 
You can use hedgehogs and bunkers to block bridges (this also blocks them from your use too). You can park a truck on a bridge or several at a ford to deny access too although this might be considered "gamey." If you're playing a game where crossing a bridge is essential to possible victory you might want to make it clear before starting that "no blocking of bridge" allowed.

Wire across a bridge prevents infantry but not tanks but wire with AT mines and AP mines is very useful

If you are using Warrior/Iron level the call for artillery can be quite lengthy which makes TRPs more important of course. TRPs act as a boresight at well.

Yeah, ATGs are spotted too well. Historically one of the most difficult targets for tankers to spot beforehand (Michael Wittman himself points this out), the game doesn't model that very well. I usually try to find defilade for them to use in flank or close range down a street shots or get a bunch of them for a PakFront.

Yeah, trenches, foxholes are spotted too easily, seems like code should support harder to see stuff in woods, etc. I laughed at movie Fury during the assault on position with ATGs in the woods (who were the worst shots ever as were the point blank dudes in the town) but infantry out in the open in foxholes... didn't make any sense... (nobody thought to ask the infantry already there where the guns were?) neither did the lone Tiger assault... if they had smoke they could have kept smoking the Tiger while maneuvering for a flank shot. That Tiger was the real deal, a restored one in UK, that and the other real equipment was cool.
 
@Fredrocker thanks, that'll teach me to RTFM!

Seriously I love this game, it keeps revealing more and more.

@Herroberst63 as I've got a thread going on the concealment topic I won't repeat myself here but I agree with all of your points you've made about spotting ATG's and fortifications.

As for the Fury scenes you're talking about with the ATG's, I was cringing. I'm an ex tank crewman (not on Shermans incase you were wondering ;)) and that film was a huge disappointment for me. It could have been so much better especially after Saving Private Ryan, BoB and the Pacific have set the bar so high over the last two decades.
 
yeah, that and the SS Bn attacks a lone buttoned up Sherman at night and gets annihilated. Really? Obviously Hollywood should hire you and me as consultants LOL. The Finnish movies about the WInter War and Continuation War are much better.
 
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