Hiking up through the learning curve

[LittleNose]

I’m struggling through the learning curve on the 1943 Tunisia version, and finding it quite tricky indeed. So many questions, and overwhelmed by the interface / UI at the moment.
The guide that’s available is excellent, but it’s hard to understand which parts to concentrate on just to get to the point of being comfortable enough to play, and then pick up the finer points later.
Its a bit lonely on this hike, and I was wondering if there was anyone else going through this at the moment, and wanted to help keep each other motivated to get over that monster of and initial hurdle?

 

[din djinn]

Feel free to email me or message me here. I bought the game a while ago, looked at it for a bit, then set it aside after finding the Combat Mission series of games which were much more what I was looking for and hoping Tank Warfare: Tunisia 1943 would be like. Still, I do want to learn the Graviteam game, so if you want to communicate and share what we learn and our experiences, I'm down for that.

 

[LittleNose]

Cheers Din Djinn

I guess like lots of people, one of the things I can't get right is the arty:
First question I have is the onfield arty.... all the tutorials I've seen have a spotter, but I'm not sure who is the spotter for my 8cm mortars shown below (yellow)?
Is it the commander (shown far left, flag with 4 troops)?

 

[din djinn]

Hah, while you're just beginning, you have a question I cannot answer because I haven't yet reach arty in my short delve into it. I will break it out this week and start learning the ropes along with you, and share what I discover.

I noticed there is a video poster on YouTube named Rag Dolly that has two videos that help explain the fundamentals. I have yet to try them myself, however.

 

[LittleNose]

cheer for the youtube suggestion - I'll take a look at those.

Hit another one this afternoon... I'm confused as to why this is considered a "complete loss", all my stats show I manged ok
sorry about the large image.

 

[LittleNose]

another one... coming to the end of my first operation (Chouigui Pass), and have been wondering what the little white dots are that occasionally appear above a tank... there are 3 above the PzIII in the image below... one in the middle of the radio icon
[edit - typo / clarity]

 

[din djinn]

Have you read the excellent manual supplement produced by the good folks at thefewgoodmen.com, available to download as compressed pdf? On page 30, it shows the symbol to look for when looking for forward observer. It looks like an artillery shell beside the platoon leader's name.

For help Steam offers, you can look here:

Tutorials for Graviteam games :: Tank Warfare: Tunisia 1943 General Discussions

Hello, In this topic, I would like to group all known tutorials about the games of Graviteam. I hope this will help newbies and veterans to understand the games and to buy a lot of games and DLC from Graviteam. I am creating some videos with subtitles. I will update this post with the new videos...

steamcommunity.com

 

[Bulletpoint]

There was apparently a UI revamp recently, but I haven't tried it. Any good? The UI has been pretty atrocious...

 

[LittleNose]

@din djinn, yes, I'm working my way through parts of the manual supplement you mention... but there is SO much stuff to cover in there.
The Forward Observer icon is interesting, and thanks for that. Question I have on that one, is whether it's just for off map arty, or covers on map too?

@Bulletpoint - yes, the interface is the thing that's getting me too. Both in understanding the information coming back to you, and also applying commands.
Things like it took me quite a while to work out how to apply a delay order properly... there's so many nuances to things that I feel unless you play regularly, then it's going to be a nightmare.
I think the upgrade to the UI was for Mius Front.

I'm close to giving up and moving onto Combat Modern Operations instead, but I'm persevering a little longer as I like the premise of the game/simulation, and the operations look well thought out and historical.
Reading about on the internet, and the development team front man seems to think there's no need for any improvement for the documentation / UI, so I'm not sure if it'll ever see much improvment.

 

[Bulletpoint]

Yeah I know what you mean. It's like the game is trying its best to prevent you from playing it.

All those little things, like how when the battle is small, you can click on an individual squad and issue an order, but when the battle is a bit bigger, suddenly you can't do that, and instead you have to first doubleclick on the platoon HQ team, and THEN you can click on the individual squad.

Also how all infantry support weapons have the same graphical icon on the map, which is an icon showing a mortar, even if the unit is actually a machinegun. So you can't tell at a glance where your MGs are and where your mortars are, unless you zoom in and check visually each time.

Etc. etc.

 

[din djinn]

@LittleNose - I understand your confusion, and that is why I hardly scratched the surface of the game. And I also agree with you that it has it's appeal, if one could get past the confusing UI. But we are in the right place for help, as there are other forum members who have figured it all out, and I'm sure will answer specific questions. Hang in there! As I already mentioned, this week I've assigned myself the homework of trying to crack this game which I purchased back in April but never spent more than an hour or two playing before giving up. I didn't ask for a refund then because I agree that it has potential, I think, just a steep learning curve. As for CM, it too has a learning curve, and it doesn't always behave as you want or expect, but one can do a lot right away, and refine control through the fun of actually playing, and not reading manuals or watching videos.

 

[LittleNose]

You're hitting the nail on the head (both @Bulletpoint and @din djinn)
That's exactly my feeling with this game too

[edit - new reply arrived while I was typing]

 

[LittleNose]

In comparison I understood the first 2 CM games fairly quickly (haven't played since Barb to Berlin)... and at least when things happen, you can generally see what and why.

 

[Bulletpoint]

In comparison I understood the first 2 CM games fairly quickly (haven't played since Barb to Berlin)... and at least when things happen, you can generally see what and why.

Graviteam makes Combat Mission look like a paragon of sensible design

Still, Graviteam has so much going for it. I keep launching myself at it to see if I can penetrate its mysteries, only to find I once again ricochet off its obtuse convolutions.

 

[din djinn]

Okay, I give up. I spent 3 hours this morning wrestling with the "game" and I had no fun. For all the promise I see in it, I just can't be bothered to put in any more time learning it. I have better things to do with my time. Good luck @LittleNose. If you persevere, then you have more patience than I have.

 

[HOA_KSOP]

It's a simulator more than a game. And there is no doubt, it is a hard simulator. If you guys have the Tunisia learning guide, it should help immensely, much of it is applicable in Mius Front.

 

[LittleNose]

Okay, I give up. I spent 3 hours this morning wrestling with the "game" and I had no fun. For all the promise I see in it, I just can't be bothered to put in any more time learning it. I have better things to do with my time. Good luck @LittleNose. If you persevere, then you have more patience than I have.

Sorry to hear you've had enough Din Djinn... good luck whatever game you end up in next.
I suspect I'm not too far behind you through that door. The game / simulator could be so good, and pretty much exactly what I'm looking for in terms of applying a set of orders to a battle and seeing how it plays out... a "management style RTS".

@HOA_KSOP - I question whether the simulation is a hard simulation, or it simply has an interface that is so badly designed as to make you think there's a difficult simulation underneath.
I agree the simulation is deep, and includes a lot of factors that aren't covered in other simulations. However, I would have thought that if it was a "hard" simulaiton, it would be easy to get your a$$ handed to you. As it stands I'm spending all my effort fighting the interface rather than the enemy.
If I'm wrong, then I would happily be shown the light, as I believe I would really enjoy this once I get passed the user interface issues. Which would also lead me onto picking up the other Graviteam titles too.

Thankfully I've only spent ~£5 & 10-12 hours on this (incl youtube / manuals / in-game)

 

[HOA_KSOP]

Sorry to hear you've had enough Din Djinn... good luck whatever game you end up in next.
I suspect I'm not too far behind you through that door. The game / simulator could be so good, and pretty much exactly what I'm looking for in terms of applying a set of orders to a battle and seeing how it plays out... a "management style RTS".

@HOA_KSOP - I question whether the simulation is a hard simulation, or it simply has an interface that is so badly designed as to make you think there's a difficult simulation underneath.
I agree the simulation is deep, and includes a lot of factors that aren't covered in other simulations. However, I would have thought that if it was a "hard" simulaiton, it would be easy to get your a$$ handed to you. As it stands I'm spending all my effort fighting the interface rather than the enemy.
If I'm wrong, then I would happily be shown the light, as I believe I would really enjoy this once I get passed the user interface issues. Which would also lead me onto picking up the other Graviteam titles too.

Thankfully I've only spent ~£5 & 10-12 hours on this (incl youtube / manuals / in-game)

Sounds like we need an interface flow chart....

 

[LittleNose]

Sounds like we need an interface flow chart....

Possibly... I'll continue thrashing against it for a while.
Despite all the moaning, under there is a game that is both unique and I've wanted for a long time... so hats off to the developers on that one.

 

[HOA_KSOP]

Possibly... I'll continue thrashing against it for a while.
Despite all the moaning, under there is a game that is both unique and I've wanted for a long time... so hats off to the developers on that one.

Well, all I know is it takes a little (LOT) practice. I think Warsimmer's Youtube videos are very good and so are Rag Dolly's. Some of Warsimmer's are playthroughs that are valuable because you can see how he uses the UI extensively. It's a time investment.

What I have found to be valuable on the various Graviteam tutorial how-to videos found on Youtube is if you have a laptop or tablet you can "play along" and emulate the actions depicted in the videos. It accelerates the learning curve quite a bit because you can see "cause and effect" immediately. You can also "rewind" the videos to "make sure" you "get" the concepts.