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Obama Heckled. 'Let Me Finish, Ma'am,' President Responds.

I take no pride in the way he has allowed the opposition to dictate to him, and wish he would take the Repubs to the mat.

Not sure what you think the opposition has dictated to him. This guy and his cronies have had their way with policy and changing the way the US looks at economics and personal responsibility. They crammed health care down our throats, played with immigration through EO's, kill people left and right with drones and flinging money around like a drunk sailor in a whore house.

And what to take them to the mat on? None of his ideas (which probably aren't his..... Just a bunch of Chicago thugs ideas.) are good ideas so there is not really anything great to take anyone to the mat on.
 
Always makes me laugh when I hear Americans talking about healthcare... how dare a Government provide basic level healthcare for it's citizens! :p Don't worry DasTiger, it works here in Australia and in many other countries.

Read my post above, more than ever before it's the people behind the President (or any world leader) these days you have to be worried about. For better or worse, the world is now to complicated for one person to keep up with on all issues.
 
My observation is that the president, and to a greater extent, his administration, spends an inordinate amount of time blaming everybody but themselves for things not being right. Presidents lead, they don't blame others. Bush was certainly no peach, but he led. Obama, methinks, not so much.

And about the IRS scandal, I suspect a serious investigation will reveal that the IRS was used by the administration (I am not saying the President) to intimidate and frustrate those groups opposed to the president's re-election...which would put Obama and his administration in the same league as Nixon...that's right, Nixon. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence floating around that points to a conspiracy, not a rogue element...and if it is a rogue element, then this is a classic case of proving the Republican stance is correct...more government is not a good thing...
 
Always makes me laugh when I hear Americans talking about healthcare... how dare a Government provide basic level healthcare for it's citizens! :p Don't worry DasTiger, it works here in Australia and in many other countries.
Please take no offense my friend but we also have Medicare (as you call it) and it is almost bankrupt. We've had Medicare for a long time and we have provided basic level healthcare (our Medicare) for those in need for a long time. I won't waste your time or mine but the basis of Obamacare isn't government funded health care. It just makes sure YOU (emphasis on YOU) have to BUY (emphasis on BUY) healthcare if you don't have it. If you don't have it you have to pay a penalty starting at tax time in the near future. I am sure that the program you have (and I am guessing here) isn't quite like that.

People from other countries seem to think that Americans are barbarians and only the rich get health care. It's not like that. All people are guaranteed care regardless of their ability to pay. The ones that can't pay have Medicare or Medicaid to fall back on. Obamacare just makes a mess out of a system that provided very good doctors who provided a very professional service. Many think that Obamacare gives "Free" health care. Wait till tax time in 2014 and beyond and you will hear the American people SCREAM. There ain't S.H.I.T. that is free.
 
My observation is that the president, and to a greater extent, his administration, spends an inordinate amount of time blaming everybody but themselves for things not being right. Presidents lead, they don't blame others. Bush was certainly no peach, but he led. Obama, methinks, not so much.

And about the IRS scandal, I suspect a serious investigation will reveal that the IRS was used by the administration (I am not saying the President) to intimidate and frustrate those groups opposed to the president's re-election...which would put Obama and his administration in the same league as Nixon...that's right, Nixon. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence floating around that points to a conspiracy, not a rogue element...and if it is a rogue element, then this is a classic case of proving the Republican stance is correct...more government is not a good thing...

I agree with what you say. But I also believe that the IRS deal is a basic way the left looks at the right. They feel that the elections have entitled them to just destroy anyone who opposes them. They have a huge amount of hate built up from all the Bush years and want to squish the right till it is dead. To hell with laws or morals. They won the election, damn it, and they can do what they want. Very Stalinist in my opinion. But the media talks about it for a moment in a not so negative way and then moves on to Brad and Angelina and the administration talks about the sex scandal in the military or something else and life goes on.
 
Please take no offense my friend but we also have Medicare (as you call it) and it is almost bankrupt. We've had Medicare for a long time and we have provided basic level healthcare (our Medicare) for those in need for a long time. I won't waste your time or mine but the basis of Obamacare isn't government funded health care. It just makes sure YOU (emphasis on YOU) have to BUY (emphasis on BUY) healthcare if you don't have it. If you don't have it you have to pay a penalty starting at tax time in the near future. I am sure that the program you have (and I am guessing here) isn't quite like that.

Sounds very similar to what we have. Part of our regular tax dollars goes towards our health system while we also have a Medicare Levy - the level paid by the individual is determined by your income level and also whether or not you have Private Health Cover. The levy was actually recently increased to cover new services for a wide range of disability services.

I think what paints the US in bad light to the international community on the topic of healthcare is the enormous cost that individuals face after they have received assistance from the system. Yes health services are also expensive here but a good chunk of that is covered by the tax/levy's you have already paid. In addition there is a large range of prescription drugs that are also subsidized by the government to keep costs down for those in need.

And don't worry I've got very thick skin, hard to offend me in lively debate. Even had a chair thrown at me back in my Uni days. Got on great with that guy afterwards, he became a drinking buddy. ;)
 
we have provided basic level healthcare (our Medicare) for those in need for a long time.

I can only state my personal experience regarding healthcare for those in need in America.
It was 1994, I was unemployed and started getting severe debilitating headaches that even oxycodone couldn't touch. My only relief was once I finally could sleep. I had no medical insurance since I was unemployed. I went to the county offices seeking advice as to how to address this medical concern. I was told that since I wasn't on welfare and had no children, there was nothing they could do. That was it, no care for the indigent in need.
After several weeks of hell, someone suggested that I go to the VA since I was a veteran. So I went to the local VA emergency and since I was a Purple Heart Veteran found that I was eligible for care through the VA. They took my blood pressure in the emergency room, it was 220/200. They immediately made me lay down and told me I wasn't going anywhere until they got it lowered. Turns out I had for weeks been flirting with a stroke due to my blood pressure and had I not been a veteran there was no healthcare for my sorry, broke arse.
While it is true that under emergency circumstances one can always seek treatment at a hospital with an emergency room, but for many, by that time their condition has worsened and requires more costly care than had they been able to access regular healthcare. Using the expensive emergency room care does not provide follow up care either, so some make repeated trips to the emergency room. And make no mistake, the American taxpayer, pays for those unable to afford insurance.
I find it interesting that there is so much flak from the Right on Obamacare, when it is the Conservative mantra that we should all be responsible for ourselves instead of waiting for the govt to care for us. So now that we have a semblance of a program to do just that, the conservatives in Congress have voted to repeal the law making individuals responsible for their healthcare, 40 times since it was passed. That just strengthens my position that this is not about the concept of universal healthcare (1st proposed by Richard Nixon) but about achieving the Republican goal (as stated by Senate majority leader) of making Obama a failed president.


Disclaimer: Remember, with my opinion and a couple of dollars/euros you can buy a cup of coffee.
 
The best medicare system (seen from a financial point) I know of was the east german one. You had never additional costs as a patient. All was done by the taxes. You could get whenever and wherever You wanted if the current doc wasn´t able to help You. In the 60s and 70s the medicare was at that state that even FRG citizens, french and other foreigners come over to old east germany for treatment. And let me note that the average east german was far more less seeing the doctors (even if he had can do it whenever he wanted/needed) as the west german then and today. Since the fine reunion we have the west system (what by the way is cut back evermore) and the visit and treatment rate is risen dramatically.
To close my statement - It´s not a thing of self responsibilty to pay for health. It is a sign (at least in my eyes) that nothing is too evil to cut some money from the citizen. GDR proved their medical system make/hold the man healthy, the self responsibilty high and reduced the need of visiting doctors.

Greetings :)
 
You are never denied healthcare in the US. You walk into an emergency room or urgent care facility and they'll treat you....they have to, it's part of the Hippocratic oath. But how does it get paid for? People that have insurance PAY MORE to cover those who don't....so no one goes without, the burden was laid on the few who had plans...but now that has changed, everyone has to have it, some more consumers mean more money means less cost for everyone, right? Nope, it's more expensive AND your plan doesn't cover as much as it did.
Why...because the government is now involved. VA healthcare is a mess, social security is a mess, medicare is a mess and someone thinks the government can run/legislate health care? I'd say no, judging from previous efforts..

I also read today that the US government is selling 30 million shares of GM stock it holds from the whole economic flim flammery of a few years back. If the US is a government of the people, shouldn't I have been receiving a dividend check because are aren't all US citizens part owners, technically speaking? I'd like my share mailed to me, I think I can invest it better than the USGOV...
 
You are never denied healthcare in the US. You walk into an emergency room or urgent care facility and they'll treat you....they have to, it's part of the Hippocratic oath. But how does it get paid for? People that have insurance PAY MORE to cover those who don't....so no one goes without, the burden was laid on the few who had plans...but now that has changed, everyone has to have it, some more consumers mean more money means less cost for everyone, right? Nope, it's more expensive AND your plan doesn't cover as much as it did.
Why...because the government is now involved. VA healthcare is a mess, social security is a mess, medicare is a mess and someone thinks the government can run/legislate health care? I'd say no, judging from previous efforts..

I also read today that the US government is selling 30 million shares of GM stock it holds from the whole economic flim flammery of a few years back. If the US is a government of the people, shouldn't I have been receiving a dividend check because are aren't all US citizens part owners, technically speaking? I'd like my share mailed to me, I think I can invest it better than the USGOV...

I'm not advocating full government control but at the same time I wouldn't want to advocate government being completely out of the provision of healthcare. A private company by it's very nature, no matter what industry, will always put profit first. That's what it's there to do - make money and increase wealth by producing goods and services. Unless of course it's a declared not-for-profit obviously. The problem is the capitalist/profit mentality isn't always the best fit for all industries, healthcare would be the highest up there on that list. If there is a common good that needs to be met by that industry, the waters get very murky very quickly and attracts political ideological debaters like moths to the flame. Sadly, and especially over the last ten years or so this purely profit driven mentality has got completely out of control after years of deregulation (especially in the financial services sector) and we are seeing the social and economic flow on effects now.

Governments by deregulating are reducing their power to fight back when private companies do something wrong. So when they obviously need to act, they start acting like private investors, ie. GM. I agree I couldn't believe that announcement when they made it during the GFC. "To big to fallover." I call bullshit. No private company is ever to big to fall over in a true free capitalist market. Yes there is short term loss to employment and even in some cases national prestige but so be it. But that's the crux of the problem, don't kid yourself, America is not the best advocate of a free market system. If it was it wouldn't have some of the highest agriculture trade protection measures in the western world. A free market isn't simply the ability to buy ten different brands of cheese from three different supermarkets.

I haven't even touched on public debt which is probably a big reason why this new healthcare system is seen as inadequate, as government is forced to limit what it can realistically offer. Sadly that issue is going to be a constant long term drag on the US economy for a generation or so at this rate. And no the debt isn't solely Obama's fault, both sides are guilty of driving that up.
 
It looks like we are getting a few miles out of this thread...though off topic but it seems calm and easy going...good going guys.

As for health care here in Canada it is great...yes we pay in our taxes because as stated earlier nothing is free. But way back some smart socialist said hey if we pool our money we can all get the same health care for the same buck whether one is rich or poor. The problem I see here is the Federal government takes in the taxes and doles it out to the provinces to use in each provincial health care system, each province has a little different system. I believe that this is due to which type of government (conservative, liberal, socialist etc.) is in power when the system was formed provincially. We have waste I believe when many hands touch the money, especially when each province has provincial taxes they levee.

Our costs actually is less from what I have read then the US system per person in their old way of doing it. As for the new system they have...it is a joke...the whole thing was written by insurance companies. Which I believe they may be regretting now? All that aside though nothing is perfect in any system due to individual greed of people and especially companies.

I will take our flawed system over any other I know of in the world. I can go anytime and any place to get care anywhere in Ontario and Canada at large without taking out a loan or losing any money in my bank account.
 
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