PTSD....Food for Thought
- Thread starter Hedgehog
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2054172
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well I don't think that is quite the issue.
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Cargol
Guest
Quite unfortunate post Ted.....
perhaps that is some thing that goes through there minds from time to time, especially when they get there low moments.......No upset intended I can assure who ever reads this Post
As one who suffers from the Mental Illness that is PTSD, I can assure you that my problems don't stem from me being awesome while at war, but instead from the internal conflicts brought upon by my participation in the immoral acts of war. In reality I was not awesome, I was hideous and less than the human being I thought myself, and now I live my days with the karma I sowed.
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Strachwitz
Guest
These are wise words Facman. I don`t know how to actually say in english what I want so say but your words are truly human, self-reflective and offer a view on your inside. Most of the time veterans choose to hide behind macho behaviour and bravado mentality (I also understand this as fully a way of selfpreservation or so) and not many let us have a look at there true feelings. Thanks for that and I hope I could somehow express what I wanted to say.
My granddad never actually let someone look at his feeling regarding is participation in WWII and that is of course understandable as old wounds should sometimes not be openend up again.
My granddad never actually let someone look at his feeling regarding is participation in WWII and that is of course understandable as old wounds should sometimes not be openend up again.
To all the men and women that suffer from PTSD (I wish you peace of mind), I offer two books for perspective on your experiences.
1. On Killing by LTC (R) Dave Grossman.
2. On Combat by LTC (R) Dave Grossman and Loren W. Christensen
1. On Killing by LTC (R) Dave Grossman.
2. On Combat by LTC (R) Dave Grossman and Loren W. Christensen
Just bought 'On Killing' last week. The other will have to wait until I finish the first.
Just had dinner with my father-in-law tonight. He fought in the Pacific during WW2 and in Korea. He will never speak of his experiences. I respect his wishes and appreciate that whatever happened, he did with the best intentions and finest motivations.
I would imagine that would be the correct way to behave, Like most of the Guys who were and survived these conflicts, A job at to be done end of story
I believe your reading of the book will assist in understanding what you did and how it affects you. I will also say that training before hand can assist in the preparation of young men and women for what they could find themselves faced with during their military careers no matter how brief or long they may be in their selected service after reading both books. I hope you enjoy (if that is the right word) the reading.
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Bert Blitzkrieg
Guest
To me it is remarkable that you hear(ed) much less about PTSD in cconnection with WW2 (and even the Korean war) then with the later wars like Vietnam, Afghanistan etc.
Don't know why that is.
Don't know why that is.
I believe in WWII it was called "Battle Fatigue". However I also believe that the men and women from that era had the advantage of being able to talk through some of their issues with each other as they transitioned from war to a normal life again. Transportation was normally by ship and took days and weeks to get back home allowing for these people to talk about and sort out their experiences with each other. I believe during this down time they were able to figure out what happened to them and others and additionally to see that they were not alone in what they experienced. This time together gave them perspective that in today's world does not exist. Time is compressed to make this transition because we now travel back via plane sometimes with your unit but more often than not by individual which does provide the same opportunity to gain this perspective. My long winded 2 cents.
PTSD is nothing new, Humankind has been suffering from it since time immemorial. What is different is the awareness of it as a Mental Illness. Perhaps as Fabishd indicates, some of the the ways we send men/women off to war has changed the dynamic as well. When I went to Vietnam, I didn't go as the member of a unit, I went alone and when it was time for me to come home, I also came home alone. Flew back from Okinawa at the end of my tour, and within 2 weeks I was a civilian on the street. Facing a society that didn't think very highly of Vietnam Vets and never welcomed me home and only belatedly (40+ years) is thanking me for my service.
As for WW2 Vets, here's a little article that illustrates how some US WW2 Vets came home with PTSD, only to receive the most barbaric of medical treatments.
http://projects.wsj.com/lobotomyfiles/
And for those interested in understanding PTSD, an excellent article by one who suffers from it. http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/mental_health/ptsd.htm
As for WW2 Vets, here's a little article that illustrates how some US WW2 Vets came home with PTSD, only to receive the most barbaric of medical treatments.
http://projects.wsj.com/lobotomyfiles/
And for those interested in understanding PTSD, an excellent article by one who suffers from it. http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/mental_health/ptsd.htm
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Cargol
Guest
Because back then this illness wasnt categorized or even admitted as such.
I am glad to see that this as become a well worth and healthy discussion, Good to talk Guy's
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Strachwitz
Guest
Maybe what also comes into play regarding WWII and PTSD is the soldiers returned from a war they actually won and most of all from a war against something evil which has to be stopped. So the reason of the fighting was clearly seen as something positive and might have helped afterwards justifying all the bad inhuman thing soldiers have to do. At least they could say they liberated Europe and defeated the Nazis. Most of the wars after that were quite controversial in one way or another, the reasons often not as clear and in some cases outright wrong and on top on that in some cases "they" don`t even won the war. So maybe a broad acceptance at home about the reasons for a war may help coping with mental problems like PTSD.
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lawman56
Guest
As a vet who also suffers from PTSD, I find it fascinating to learn exactly how the mind works. The brain is a very complex, and remarkably flexible blob of nerve tissue. It's ability to improvise, adapt and overcome is second to none. I personally believe ones own experiences leading to the traumatic incident(s), will determine how we will deal with the trauma after. A comparison was made between wars prior to Korea, versus wars post Korea. Although there is no concrete evidence of this, I am of the opinion that part of the difference, is in the environment those people had been raised and the magnitude of the war. For example, WWII was fought by thousands of draftees that had survived the US depression. A certain "survival" mentality permeated throughout society. Couple that with the number who served, and you find a support network of people throughout society with similar experiences to yours. You went as a group. Came back as a group, hung out together, worked in the same factories, etc...
Starting with the US involvement in Korea, with few exceptions, small groups, or even individuals went for a specific period of time, and then left. No continuity of unit. no "misery loves company", if you will. Less of the population is affected, as these were the young teens during WWII. Jump another 10 years to Vietnam. Less units go as a group. More go as individuals, (as Facman stated), even less cohesiveness of unit. Add an element of tactical stupidity in the government, and a recipe for disaster is created. The average American is afraid of even acknowledging we're involved, for fear of verbal and sometimes physical assault by the war's opponents. Virtually no support network, vets won't even talk to each other.
Jump to my generation. All volunteer military, and by the time Operations Just Cause and Desert Shield/Storm come around, senior leaders and parents are mostly Vietnam vets. As such, there is a decided turn in support for our military. Units deploy as a whole, and stay until completion. Cohesiveness as a unit and esprit de corps is re-affirmed. However, we scatter piecemeal back into society. Little, to no, mental health support is available until the Vietnam vets start to demand it.
Since the start of the current conflict in 2003, the mental health care and recognition of PTSD has jumped by leaps and bounds. I know that the younger soldiers have become more open about the issues they face, and I offer myself as a therapist of sorts. If nothing else a friendly ear to bend. The health care providers have started to recognize more and more mental trauma and it's affect on society as a whole.
Mention was also made as to why there is no briefing prior to deployment or combat. I truly believe, if you tell people what they may suffer from, most will either desert or go AWOL to prevent it from happening. If you told someone that if they drove down a certain road, there was a 90% chance they'd wreck, they won't drive down it.
Starting with the US involvement in Korea, with few exceptions, small groups, or even individuals went for a specific period of time, and then left. No continuity of unit. no "misery loves company", if you will. Less of the population is affected, as these were the young teens during WWII. Jump another 10 years to Vietnam. Less units go as a group. More go as individuals, (as Facman stated), even less cohesiveness of unit. Add an element of tactical stupidity in the government, and a recipe for disaster is created. The average American is afraid of even acknowledging we're involved, for fear of verbal and sometimes physical assault by the war's opponents. Virtually no support network, vets won't even talk to each other.
Jump to my generation. All volunteer military, and by the time Operations Just Cause and Desert Shield/Storm come around, senior leaders and parents are mostly Vietnam vets. As such, there is a decided turn in support for our military. Units deploy as a whole, and stay until completion. Cohesiveness as a unit and esprit de corps is re-affirmed. However, we scatter piecemeal back into society. Little, to no, mental health support is available until the Vietnam vets start to demand it.
Since the start of the current conflict in 2003, the mental health care and recognition of PTSD has jumped by leaps and bounds. I know that the younger soldiers have become more open about the issues they face, and I offer myself as a therapist of sorts. If nothing else a friendly ear to bend. The health care providers have started to recognize more and more mental trauma and it's affect on society as a whole.
Mention was also made as to why there is no briefing prior to deployment or combat. I truly believe, if you tell people what they may suffer from, most will either desert or go AWOL to prevent it from happening. If you told someone that if they drove down a certain road, there was a 90% chance they'd wreck, they won't drive down it.
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Bert Blitzkrieg
Guest
Yes, I think it makes a big difference if you can talk to other people who had more or less the same experiences as you did.
I would also point out that the average age of a participant in WW2 was 26 years old. While in Vietnam, the average age was 19 years old (my age when there). That is a significant difference in life experience to help cope with the trauma of war.