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SlySniper

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Keep in mind, never post anything that could give away information about a present battle that others are playing.

Please save these items until all others have finished that round.
 

SlySniper

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OK, Round one is finally completed and you can have open discussions about the battle.

I would like to point out, I might have made it a tad too hard for the Russian player.

When I post the scores we had 2 Russian wins, 5 Ukrainian wins and one draw.

But with our format 6 players with losing scores still win points for being in the best upper half of the results.



As for game play, I saw many players doing the right thing and still having challenges.
Personnally I believe the Russian player in this battle needs to concentrate his force in a small area of attack and limit the enemy from viewing him other than from a small sector.
Thus the right flank is the correct choice in my opinion.
Second he needed to have a few capable forces guarding his left flank from a counter attack. I saw a few battles that the Ukrainian player won the battlefield position and became the attacker.


When I did my first test of the battle, I had 4 tanks for the Ukrainian player, it felt too easy and I wanted to make sure it was a slug fest. So I gave them 6 tanks knowing it was a lot, but in my play test I still won as the Russians , but looking back on it, I had good breaks as to some luck and likely should have stayed with the original design.

as the Ukrainian player , being aggressive and not sitting back in your original positions seems to be the key. Moving forward and grapping some good defensive positions farther forward was a key for some of the better results from what I saw.

I just hope you enjoyed it, win or lose and maybe learned something in the process.


Round two battle is showing to be be just as hard, so just remember its about doing the best with what you have.

This contest is about being a little better than the other guy, not the score on the result sheet from the scenario.
 

Lethaface

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My plan was start the attack aggressively on the low terrain on the right flank, move to capture the first objective one. From there move to control the plateau and use mobility to switch to the extreme left, using the plateau to limit my exposure from the reverse slope.

However it started not good when my APS vehicles, which I positioned up front, started being lazed and throwing smoke instead of shooting up the enemy. So my aggressive advance turned into a covered advance. Not that bad but not what I planned for, losing a BMP-3M Arena but taking out a couple BTR-4E. But than I got two tank sound contacts on the extreme left, threatening my back line. So I rushed my two T-90AM to meet the threat, thinking they moved sort of safe along the plateau. Also, I had expected those two tanks were @nektoman only tanks. However I was rudely awakened when my T-90s were lazed from the back and hit with 125mm, taking out one T-90. The other barely escaped, ERA helping to defeat some rounds. Proceeding to meet with the two spotted tanks, while rushing in some BMPs (including one with the Bn HQ in it, which were promptly taken out), he took more 125mm but survived all. I really felt I lost the match there, having one damaged T-90 left against what I thought were 4 T-64, while also losing the Bn HQ and a Plt HQ, impacting C2.

However, I rushed most my forces to control the reverse slope of the plateau, slowly moving forward with BMPs in support and with the T-90 hunting to take out enemy tanks one by one, using the plateau hill to shoot and scoot. In the end it manage to take out 5 T-64BV. My infantry suffered under mortar fire but was able to secure the first 3 objectives. In the last few turns I managed to mount some remaining infantry teams and occupy the last two objectives. They were only secured in the last turn.
So, with some more luck @nektoman (or rather less luck for me) could have destroyed my second T-90 and it would have allowed him to roll up my back line and probably a big different outcome.

Combat Mission Black Sea Screenshot 2021.01.06 - 17.57.29.84.png

And, this BMP-3M ERA survived point blank 125mm and two RPG's, all hitting it within a 5 or 10 second period.

Combat Mission Black Sea Screenshot 2021.01.06 - 18.00.13.63.png
 

Lethaface

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PS Notice the 'after-market fume extractor' as Zabusov told his gunner how to consider it, before committing on their spree of destruction.
 

greyfox

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As the Ukrainians, I did ok at killing @Sgt Joch's tanks and vehicles, but I screwed up by not being aggressive enough. Had I simply pushed forward on my right flank and taken the buildings on the hill I would probably have enough points to get on the leaderboard. We'll see when the results are published.
 

BlackJack

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I was playing Ukraine and my battle plan primarily consisted of setting up some small ambushes with good lines of fire once the Russians came over crests or around corners. I figured I would be at a severe disadvantage if there was really any range between my Ukrainians and Howler's Russians, so I tried to mitigate that. I certainly didn't want to be in a slugging match with anything his force possessed. I wanted to spot and engage, then hopefully scoot (most of the vehicles who were able to engage did not get the chance to scoot).

The first shots fired on my end were a BTR 4 Getting a good few flanking shots on Russian vehicles as they area fired possible positions for my men to be hiding in the village on my left flank. My decision not to leave infantry in those buildings at the start of the match paid off since all he managed was to level a few empty buildings and I believe I traded that BTR 4 for 2 of the Russian transports. That BTR 4 was turned into charred metal on short order. Then things were quiet for a moment while Howler moved up, and the next shots fired were from 2 of my T-64s at point-blank range knocking out one of his T-90's. This was an important victory because I believe it caused him to back off his remaining T-90 and use it very sparingly for the rest of the battle, which was a massive relief for me.

It devolved into a costly slog for the Russian force trying to march through the woods onto the objectives, as ambush-focused infantry and various T-64s in positions around the field were successful in destroying Russian armored vehicles and exacting some infantry casualties. The BTR 4s could not say the same, because, after the initial victory, I don't believe a single BTR 4 scored a hit on anything else the entire game. I made the really poor decision to be aggressive or overly optimistic in the wrong places with 3 of my T-64s which earned me 2 burning wrecks and a glorified machine gun bunker but did manage to further delay his advance. APS was a major frustration, as my forces fired, I believe, in excess of 4 ATGMs and at least 2 tank rounds at one Russian vehicle to no avail. This was a common theme for me, as one of my tanks spotted and engaged Russian armor before the Russians saw it coming, and yet it was knocked out as the Russian APS systems had no trouble dealing with the incoming fire and the T-64 was finally spotted and engaged. The Russians paid dearly, losing 7 of their Armored vehicles and a lot of infantry.

I think I should have pressed my advantage on the right flank when I had the chance. After knocking out the T-90 I should have pressed those 2 T-64s up immediately to hopefully knock out the remaining T-90. The field was still covered by elements a bit behind the frontlines, so even a trade would have worked out in my favor. I should NOT have tried to press one of those T-64s into the LOS of multiple Russian armored vehicles which proceeded to pick it apart. I also may have done well to defend the front line a little more heavily, because I gave up a few possible objectives right off the bat that I may have had a chance to maintain control of if I hadn't been so timid with my initial unit placement. All-in-all I was satisfied with the defense, but really could have benefitted from some better-placed aggression and less cautious deployment.

I still came out with a victory that I was pleased with, and Howler certainly gave me a run for my money, and it was a very fun game. I do agree that it was probably a tad too challenging for the Russians, but what can you do?
 

olaf

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Interesting reading SlySnipers suggestion as I tried to do exactly that. My T90s were very eager to throw up smoke instead of looking for targets so it was frustrating to use them in the attack.
 

Raging Al

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Really enjoyable and thoroughly challenging scenario as the Russians. Wasn’t expecting to come up against SIX T64’s, but luckily the BTR-4E’s didn’t seem as quick on the draw as the Russian IFV’s. Considering all of the other results, I think I must have got lucky to sneak out a minor victory. It was a brutal fight against @Afromullet and both sides were heavily depleted by the end. Great battle.
 

nektoman

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I can't recall the battle in details. At the start my tanks moved to advantageous positions on the flanks. I was really unhappily surprised when Zabusov's tank survived several tank shots. One of them must have destroy the 125-mm gun, and I was unhappily surprised again when Zabusov continued to fire just as if nothing has happened.

At least a half of my tanks died without any damage for the opponent. My inexperienceness in handling with ukrainian army appeared too: I didn't expect that the BTR-4 are so 'blind'. Remembering Oplots which always were a menace while my battles against Ukraine, I expected that the modern BTRs aren't much worse in spotting than russian BMPs, but it seems I was mistaken. The agressive mechanized movement against the opponent's central advance axe turned into a slaughter.

One of the few pleasant moments in this battle was my infantry ambush on the right flank. It was really difficult position for the enemy, and it seems I have used all its possibilities. I hid a squad on the reverse slope outside the building trying to catch attacking russian infantry into a trap. The only thing I had a fear about were the russian ABHE shells - the only way to suppress my soldiers. But they weren't used there. @Lethaface's actions even surpassed my expectations - he moved a BMP very close to the house which was destroyed at the same moment.

I planned that this squad will be supported by the tanks, but @Lethaface's agressive actions scuttled this plan and in several minutes the squad was eliminated.

At the end of the battle I have lost any will to oppose. My last tank on the right flank lost his commander and it was luck that it spotted russian ERA BMP at all.

Interesting reading SlySnipers suggestion as I tried to do exactly that. My T90s were very eager to throw up smoke instead of looking for targets so it was frustrating to use them in the attack.
It is sad that there's no T-90 without laser warning.
 
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Hapless

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Very interesting to hear some annoyance with laser warning recievers- maybe it's information overload and ignorance is bliss?

I was playing as the Ukrainians against Aurelius’ Russians. Obviously it was a while ago, so here are the broad strokes:

Turn 1

This first screenshot shows the end of Turn 1. A bit of quick dirty terrain analysis gives the Russians two avenues of approach: through the valley on the Ukr left flank, or over the hill in the centre. I didn’t want to get into a long range engagement against the T90s mentioned in the briefing- especially with the ancient T64s- so I aimed to set up in the wood at the narrowest point of the valley.
Battle1Plan.png

With the T64s, the rifle platoon and a few other hangers on in BTR-4Es sat at that chokepoint, they could block off the valley route by forcing a close range fight, or swing up onto the hill to flank any Russians advancing via that route.

This hill was also watched over by the Corsars- I wasn’t expecting these to be too effective against the T90s because they would trigger their laser warning receivers, but spamming lasers would at least make the TacAI use up its smoke and they could use their thermal sights to keep the plateau observed.

Out in front were the three MG teams from the weapons platoon: they formed an outpost line to give me some early warning about Aurelius’ intentions and get information on his force as fast as possible. The team on my far right- at the bottom of the screenshot- was able to get into a building overlooking the Russian deployment zone on turn 1 (just after Aurelius finished area firing the building) and spot the two Russian tanks, a few BMP-2 and BMP-3 variants plus a mortar carrier. Even though they were immediately snuffed out in the next turn with barely a shot fired, they were worth their weight in gold.

Midgame

It soon became pretty obvious that Aurelius intended to advance over the hill, so the T64s and BTRs with their infantry swung round and moved up to the edge of the plateau to threaten the Russian flank. I was luckily able to catch one of the T90s at near point blank range and take it out- at the cost of two T64s- but when I tried to follow up, Aurelius slapped me down hard.
Battle1Mid.png

This left the remaining T90 and a couple of platoons of Russian infantry with BMPs on top of the plateau with pretty much nothing between them and where I guess the objectives were, so I was quietly shuffling troops and vehicles around to try and cover the route off the plateau.

Endgame

This was only just in time to catch Aurelius making a last ditch push towards the end of the game- my remaining T64 managed to take out 2 BMPs crossing in front of it, a scattering of infantry including the SPG-9 were able to put up some more resistance in that area (the red dashed line) and I was able to stop two BMP-3s and infantry punching up my right flank with some cannon fire from the plateau edge and a single Corsar retrieved from a dead ATGM team by the Battalion HQ.

Meanwhile, I had two BTR-4Es out on my extreme left flank where they were able to roll up the Russian deployment zone by exploiting the open, empty map edge.

Battle1End.png

I certainly got lucky in places and missed some opportunities (stupid crops!) but I think the Ukrs in this one had enough force and terrain advantages to soak up a few errors, while the Russians pretty much needed a clean sweep and a cooperative opponent, so well done to Aurelius for making me scramble here and there while taking a big chunk out of my force.
 

Lethaface

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I can't recall the battle in details. At the start my tanks moved to advantageous positions on the flanks. I was really unhappily surprised when Zabusov's tank survived several tank shots. One of them must have destroy the 125-mm gun, and I was unhappily surprised again when Zabusov continued to fire just as if nothing has happened.
I was just as surprised, but not unhappily ;-) Especially about that hole in the barrel.

At least a half of my tanks died without any damage for the opponent. My inexperienceness in handling with ukrainian army appeared too: I didn't expect that the BTR-4 are so 'blind'. Remembering Oplots which always were a menace while my battles against Ukraine, I expected that the modern BTRs aren't much worse in spotting than russian BMPs, but it seems I was mistaken. The agressive mechanized movement against the opponent's central advance axe turned into a slaughter.
I think the BTR-4 spots better/as good as the BMP-2, but the BMP-3M has advantage. At least that's my memory of playing with them.

One of the few pleasant moments in this battle was my infantry ambush on the right flank. It was really difficult position for the enemy, and it seems I have used all its possibilities. I hid a squad on the reverse slope outside the building trying to catch attacking russian infantry into a trap. The only thing I had a fear about were the russian ABHE shells - the only way to suppress my soldiers. But they weren't used there. @Lethaface's actions even surpassed my expectations - he moved a BMP very close to the house which was destroyed at the same moment.

I planned that this squad will be supported by the tanks, but @Lethaface's agressive actions scuttled this plan and in several minutes the squad was eliminated.
Yeah that was a good ambush. That attacking infantry was actually my FO, moving to make an OP out of that buildings.
But than a BTR and infantry turned up. Somehow I thought your infantry had perished when I took out that BTR. The FO did set two Tank soundcontacts there, hence I send the T-90s. That BMP actually held my Bn HQ. I felt that it needed to support / flank your two tanks to support my T-90s move. But it ended very bad, losing Bn HQ and one tank.

Don't remember why no ABHE, I was shelling that position with all available assets.
It is sad that there's no T-90 without laser warning.
I have a bit of love/hate with laser warning. I think it saved Zabusov's tank, because he got lazed from behind and make a quick 180degree turn to catch the 125mm on the ERA. But it also can mess up plans for the worse, for example if planning a move with a group of units; a few get laser warning, smoke and reverse. The other vehicles keep on the move, with a hard LOS block between so no mutual support.
 
First of all that was fun. I especially liked no knowing much about the enemy and not knowing if I had enough force to get the job done. What a rush. And six Ukrainian tanks? Six? I did my usual find the enemy and then figure out how to neutralize him which was working but not fast enough and then in the final minutes multiple additional enemy tanks showed up. Yikes regardless of the fact that I lost a gun on a tank early my opponent should have committed those tanks earlier.

At any rate I decided to drive down the gully in order to control the number of enemy that would have eyes on. One platoon with the tanks lead the charge while the other platoon stayed back and protected my left flank. Once the first position was secured they and the mortars moved up too. Things stalled out for me trying to get into positions to take the next objectives but I managed to use BMP3s in hull down positions beyond that first farm to take out enemy BTRs at range. I let the infantry spot the enemy and have their BMPs fire. From the little hill on the right I spotted mortar fire on the known tank position while the lead platoon and the tanks grinded out space in the gully. As the time was running out I was able to manoeuvre to my left and push forward to take two more objectives during that push my tank scored some good victories.
 
I saw some valiant efforts to regroup and stop Ukrainian moves with their Armor. Sometimes going down in defeat to the fact of being out numbered.
I imagine that some of the Ukrainian players were also surprised by the Russians only having two tanks. I think that is what is going to be the most fun in this series - the fact that these are not balanced scenarios so you have to be careful about what you assume. Normally if you were the Ukrainian side and had 6 tanks you would likely assume the Russians had 3 or 4 or had a lot more BMPs that you or both. And as the Russians on the attack with only two tanks you would normally assume the other side might have max 4 but could also have none but a large amount of AT assets. You would never expect 6.

I was surprised after identifying four enemy tanks and destroying three that suddenly two more popped up in the final minutes. Kudos to my opponent at keeping them hidden. I find it hard to keep my nerve and keep a reserve secret. To be honest though I think they sprang them on me too late. I know I did a good job hiding the fact that on of my tanks could not fire (I had them swap positions several times) but I still think they should have been committed a little earlier. Even two minutes earlier would have caused me a lot of grief.
 

George MC

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Round 1 - I was playing Russians against @DoubleD 's Ukrainians.

In short, I bolloxed it!

I made all the wrong assumptions on enemy strength and disposition during my initial recce which I took a while on and was feeling pleasantly chuffed with myself that I'd done a good job of IDing his forces..

Based on this (wrong) assumption i.e. I thought I'd KO'd all his tanks and what was left was somewhere on my right flank (you can see where this is going...) I got in touch with my inner Rotmistrov and launched a charge down the left flank with some BMPs and their dismounts. I thought all he had covering there was the ATGM in the wee house.

They drove slap into several tanks...

When that went south I knew I'd screwed the pooch. I tried to switch the centre of gravity of mt attack to the centre but this attack bogged down and my poor infantry suddenly found themselves on their own as he pulled out more and more fire support.

By that stage, I'd given up attacking with any hope and was aiming to at least keep him at bay.

@DoubleD did a bang up job of keeping his forces out of sight and this supported my assumptions, then was aggressive in coordinating his counterattack to finish me off..

I very quickly found myself going from launching what I thought were aggressive armoured blows as evidence of my tactical genius into my pixeltruppen alter-ego grovelling around in the muck shouting into the radio "I am attacking! I am defending! I am counterattacking!" as my vehicles were blowing up and guys were being wiped out...

I really enjoyed this and would echo Ian's comment about how things are often not as you expect.

Thanks to DoubleD for a brill fight and to Slysniper for creating the mission.

Cheery!
 

Gladi

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My fight agianst MeatEtr, from my prespective:

Battle Plan
Playing as ukraininas, my initial battle plan was based on the (spoiler: wrong) assumptions that:
- The T90s were T90A.
- I need to guard and occupy the POs (possible objectives), rather than just destroy the russian forces.
- I need to concentrare on defeating his tanks cause BMPs would be easy prey, becasue well, they are BMPs....

Looking at the battlefield, I saw 3 main AoA for his armor: north ahead of the woods, middle map corridor, and the plateau.
So I took 3 of the t64 and augmented each with a buddy BTR and a corsair ATGM, placing them in keyhole positions:
1. one team on my left flank, overwatching the the north-eastren approach.
2. another team overwatching the corridor between the woods and the palteau.
3. the the last combined team on the wodded reverse slope, ahead of my mortars

The 3 remaining T64 were palced on a reverse slope to the south west of the map, acting as tactical reserve.
My infantry were placed inside buildings around the woods and in the middle PO (possible objective) , hidden and expecting a close range ambush. A single squad was placed on the PO east of the woods to act as scouts.
The SPG was on the reverse slope on my side of the plateau to the far south, waiting to ambush vehicles passing down slope.

The battle
I ordered a prebattle mortar strike, as a harrasing mission in the open field south-east of the woods.
IIRC the first encounter was an infantry contact climbing that PO with the building on top of a little hill, north east of the map on his side. I decided to lay waste to that building with the first t64-btr combined team as it was too good of an OP and we can't have that.
My scouting squad had a first sighting on a T90 - it was of the T90AM type... and it was looking straight at their position, I decided to retreat them to the cabin in the middle of the woods ... the other t90 took an overwatching position southren edge of the plateau, quicly killing some BTR4s and a couple of ATGM teams. as I didn't want to expose my t64s, the combined t64-btr-atgm teams fell apart.

After a few turns I detected two vectors of attack, the first being a dismounted infantry assault supported by BMPs through the woods. the second is a straight appraoch to the north-plateau PO, near the lone 3-level tower. At this point my infantry were eaten alive, MeatETR knows his stuf and he shoots expected enemy positions before clearing them out with infantry. the buildings turend into graves for my guys.
The first good event was that one of his T-90AM climbed the PO with the destroyed building, ending up just sitting there with his belly exposed to a keyholed T64 already looking at that position. the outcome was the first T90 ko'd... later MeatEtr disclosed that this was a TACAI screwup

1610034830308.png

Killing the first T90 was a nice start, but the rest of russian forces were very aggressively advancing. Also the other t90 was sitting on the russian side of the plateau overwatching the entire batlefield. I had to change tactics... so four of the six t64 s (3 reserve and another one of the failed combined teams) were ordered to the southren reverse slope of the plateau. together with three BTRs that acted as screening force and a lot of smoke they all charged the last t90... the outcome was a dead T90, a bmp 2 that was rushed to help him and one of my t64s.

1610035760800.png

After the successful charge I ended up controlling most of the plateau. However, the russian BMPs and infantry forces were still strong and controlled the north-plateau PO , the buildings west of the woods and were threatening to advance and take the northmost PO. Also the stars of the match, the BMP-3s, were suprisingly resilient - defeating several tank shots and killing another t64 in the procees. MeatEtr placed two of them in a reverse slope near the lone 3-level tower and they were undeafetable at thsi point one with ERA and the other with APS. another BMP was shootind and scooting between the woods and the northmost PO.

After a few more turns where I mostly scarificed forces to his BMPs and infantry and having to fight over the northmost PO with remnants of vehicles crews, I decided to take the T64 and BTRs on the plateau and conduct an encirciling movemant to east. First I sent an IFV to scout around and he was killed by a ghost. So I just sent my T64 blind hopping to at least get a shot at the BMP 3s . Two of the tanks reached the eastern part of the map. One of them, the platoon commander tank was sent to take an shot at the BMPs only to get dabbed on by APS and then defeated by a barrel launched AT-10. The surviving tank managed to repel an attack by two BMP 3 (not the ones on the revesre slope).
At this point I went all for nothing and moved two of three remaining t64 from their postion . one took out the BMP-3 that controled the west sdie of the woods. the other went in and killed a bmp-2 (that was immobilized?) on the eastren side of the plateau. the survivng encricler stayed in his place. I moved my mortar teams to take position and overwatch the approach to the contested northmost PO (by small arms, they ran out of mortar shells). a lone ATGM team member that survived the fight over the northmost PO managed to take out the ERA BMP-3 on reverse slope. The last BMP 3, equiped with APS ran out of APS round ( I guess) and took a shell . The fight ended a couple of turns later, reaching the time limit.

1610039270509.png

OUTCOME and REMARKS
The match ended with a "major victory" for UKR, but it sure as hell didn't feel like it. I was left with a few command units spread across the POs on my side, no BTR-4s and half of my tanks gone. the decisive factors were the number of T64s as well as the first T90am being dumb. I also failed to utilize my mortars properly, as the spotters simply didn't see the spotting rounds.
Having the infantry in buildings was also a mistake, they were too obvious.

Anyway this was great fight, I also agree that overall it was somewhat biased in favour of the ukraninas however you can't realy feel that playing against MeatEtr .
Thanks MeatEtr for the fight and sly for the scenario design and tournament!
 
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SlySniper

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So, @SlySniper how many turns did you watch? Just curious.

Good Question: The whole point of doing this is its the first time I have been able to get good feed back from designs.
Designing Scenarios, you find out how little input is ever given back on your work. Doing this, I just need to pop in and view a game and see for myself how things are working out and I get plenty of different methods being used from different players.


I actually do not watch that many. In this battle, I did open a few early files from almost every game. Wanting to see the players decision on attack approach and what the defender was countering with.


There was a few battle that caught my interest so I followed them thru the turns to see how they played out.

Normally the games that progress slower never get viewed because I have seen the patterns I am looking for in some of the earlier battles.

So I would say, I maybe viewed 10 to 12 of the battles in the early stage.

and maybe 4 battles I viewed most of the battle just for the enjoyment of it.
 

Accidental Italian

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one thing that absolutely did my head in was the fact that the Active protection system on some of my opponents BMP 3s was knocking out AP Shells from my tanks, which was a bit of a bugger when i had them in sights
 
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