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Scenario AAR's and Tactics Discussions

The_MonkeyKing

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The scenario is designed like a case study of the weaknesses of a US Stryker company. I played RUS.

- Ranges are too long for Javelin >2500m (but the perfect range for all Russian ATGM)
- I had 6x 155mm gun with enough ammo to fire nonstop the whole round. This combined with no cover and Stryker forces main power is foot infantry... = a bad time for stryker company.
- Stryker vs BTR-82A, Stryker losses everytime 1vs1
- 9P157-2 Khrizantema-S sees through thermal smoke as a bonus
 

SlySniper

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All very good points.
plus the land bridge was a choke point that the Russians could make very hard to cross if they played it thus.

It was one of the points I thought most Russian players did not focus on enough.
If I was playing the Russians, My arty would have been focused on the land bridge to make any American crossing very unconvertable.
 

Lethaface

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The scenario is designed like a case study of the weaknesses of a US Stryker company. I played RUS.

- Ranges are too long for Javelin >2500m (but the perfect range for all Russian ATGM)
- I had 6x 155mm gun with enough ammo to fire nonstop the whole round. This combined with no cover and Stryker forces main power is foot infantry... = a bad time for stryker company.
- Stryker vs BTR-82A, Stryker losses everytime 1vs1
- 9P157-2 Khrizantema-S sees through thermal smoke as a bonus

That was how it felt from my (US) perspective as well :ROFLMAO: .

After observing the map I felt a rush to the gulley was best bet for US. Mainly because lack of ranged assets, expecting at least some AT-14.

My Plan:
* Smoke barrage in front of the enemy ridges and road (using 3x mortars)
* A big rush down the road with 2 MGS up front + 2 Styker platoons, Snipers + recon infantry in humvees, using short pauses to try and pop extra vehicle smoke.
* Recon Strykers posted behind ridges far back to provide observation + ATGM stryker
* 1 Stryker platoon behind ridge in reserve

Outcome:
First two turns seemed ok. While I observed enemy Khriz on the road shooting ATGMs at my strykers rushing the road, they all missed or hit trees. The MGS were shooting at the Khriz from the move, and got real close (one shot went underneath it). While I realized the WP smoke screen nor vehicle smoke would block Khriz vision, I guessed it would still block vision from other assets (although AT-14 also have Thermal sight so I guess it too can shoot through WP smoke).
Enemy heavy artillery was pounding an empty ridge on my right flank.

Combat Mission Black Sea Screenshot 2021.04.17 - 18.14.06.49.png

Then. I paused MGS for ~10 sec to try to have a good aimed shot at the Khriz and pop more smoke iirc. This was a big mistake, as the Stryker promptly lost sight of it and than got hit by hit. One thing which confused me is that from my memory AT-15 missiles in CMBS look green, while in this game the AT-15 missiles looked the same as AT-14 missiles. Anyway the destroyed MGS blocked the road and slowed down other Strykers in the rush, leading them to also take ATGMs (several full of infantry). I tried to evade the rest but lost more in the process. I think 3+ Strykers with infantry inside perished. Some Strykers and a Humvee made it through, but I dismounted the rest who were still moving in the trees next to the road.

Combat Mission Black Sea Screenshot 2021.04.17 - 18.18.03.60.png



Combat Mission Black Sea Screenshot 2021.04.17 - 18.21.36.53.png



So there I was, 20 min left and lost a good chunk of my forces. Outranged and mostly outgunned, for my main force the only available course of action was to move out Javelin teams on foot to try and close the distance. They needed to stay on the move and spread out due to the heavy enemy artillery. At the same time I was hunting the Khriz with drones & precision munition.

The small advance guard that made it through came under heavy artillery fire so was ordered to get out of dodge and secure defensive positions on the left side of the road. In order to give Olaf something to think about, the 4 Strykers (including one MGS) were to attack his flank while I was trying to get more forces forward. A good chunk of the survivors had shattered morale.

Combat Mission Black Sea Screenshot 2021.04.17 - 18.27.13.05.png



The attack met partial success, while I was able to take out 1 BTR I lost a Stryker and the last MGS lost it's gun. At least I now had a sort of decent blocking position which enjoyed protection from the Javelin teams moving up. Also I could use these later to support an attack on the objectives from the rear.
Combat Mission Black Sea Screenshot 2021.04.17 - 18.43.43.35.png

Recon showed the left flank seemed empty, so the MGS without gun volunteered for a cheeky move to see if they can surprise some Khriz with the external .50 cal and grab some phase line points. I needed all the pointz I could get my hands on. Drones continued to hunt the Khriz'es (didn't know whether there were 2 or 3), but were unlucky in their fires. Also after the first few strikes Olaf learned to keep them on the move. Artillery kept falling on the objectives disallowing my small infantry force to do much, except from trying to defend their positions along the road. At least now I had a Javelin team who could reach out and touch any Khriz trying to move forward to the ridge again, while more were moving forward.

Combat Mission Black Sea Screenshot 2021.04.17 - 18.53.04.76.png


The MGS rush was successful as it took all phase lines and even almost got the drop on an enemy Khriz. However before the MGS could fire the .50 an AT-14 slammed into the wheels killing the commander. Another AT-14 was fired at the vehicle but it still survived (after taking all phase lines). The observed Khriz on the road started to get involved as well, while the other Khriz was forced back by hunting drones.

Combat Mission Black Sea Screenshot 2021.04.17 - 19.01.35.53.png

With the AT-14 out of ammo and the Khriz'es out of position, I sensed an opportunity to move through on the left flank, the remaining Strykers there rushed forward while some Humvees were moved up as well to try and pick up some infantry teams who crossed the fields on foot. I had previously probed on several places but only lost more Strykers. While my Javelin teams struggled to get kills on enemy vehicles on the ridge, they at least got some trying to move forward. So I had a decent screen against enemy vehicle movements past the far ridge. A number of BTR had been observed near the objective and fired upon with .50, but Javelin teams struggled to get LOS on them.

Combat Mission Black Sea Screenshot 2021.04.17 - 19.12.13.87.png

The move on the left was successful, one recon stryker got immobilized in the fields but more importantly all 4 Strykers carrying infantry made it through and outside of LOS of the far ridge (so safe from Khriz). So with 7 min left on the clock, an attack plan was formulated. The yellow lines show fire support angles and yellow stars mortar strike targets. I hoped to achieve proper crossfire, Stykers providing area fire and had a good number of 120mm mortar rounds left (~50) for the barrage.

Combat Mission Black Sea Screenshot 2021.04.17 - 19.18.19.03.png


The attack succeeded as planned. Mortar strikes suppressed the enemy troops in the objectives so their resistance was minimal, while hindering enemy infantry reinforcing the objective. My infantry on the flanks providing crossfires, combined with heavy area and reaction fire from Stryker .50 and MK19 on observed targets, my rag tag assault force proceeded to clear out most of the objectives. Enemy artillery shifted back to the objective and caused further casualties, pinning a part of my assault force. However the effect was limited overall and my forces pressed on, fighting themselves to a draw in this rather bloody engagement.

Combat Mission Black Sea Screenshot 2021.04.17 - 19.32.10.00.png

All in all I took a lot more losses than Olaf, but the objective points evened the score.

I think Olaf played his Khriz vehicles very well, while I probably could have optimized my initial rush. Probably should have shelled the road instead of smoking it, but that's in hindsight. The enemy artillery was merely a nuisance / area denial, but actually I didn't mind it falling on the objective while I was trying to get more forces forward. At least it kept my forward infantry safe from enemy attack. Perhaps for the wise, Olaf hid his vehicles after some of my Javelin teams moved forward. He kept quite a number of forces far back from the objective. This allowed them safety, but also meant that the objectives and his right flank were lightly defended allowing me to take them and manage a draw.

All in all a brutal battle, showcasing strength and weaknesses of the depicted forces. I rather enjoyed this one, although usually ME's with objective rushes are not my favorite. The force mix involved allowed this battle to be not predictable at all.

Thanks @SlySniper !

and good game @olaf.
 
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Abbasid111

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I focused most of my artillery on the copse of woods on the Russian left flank as a likely forming up point for US forces while slowly moving the Tigrs and their mounts along the woods to occupy the buildings in the valley. I felt the Russian ATGMs would dominate the US side of the valley and they did.
I also think my opponent made a mistake at the initial moves of the game and never recovered from it.
 

olaf

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@Lethaface Wow what an AAR of our game! I might have a video showing some of the action later.

I am kinda kicking myself for not doing area denial of the bridge with my artillery. Do you reckon that would have made much difference? I was hoping to hit potential spotters and javelin teams in the beginning barrage but you said that hill was empty.
 
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Lethaface

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@Lethaface Wow what an AAR of our game! I might have a video showing some of the action later.

I am kinda kicking myself for not doing area denial of the bridge with my artillery. Do you reckon that would have made much difference? I was hoping to hit potential spotters and javelin teams in the beginning barrage but you said that hill was empty.

Depending on timing and intensity of the strike, I guess ;-)

Although in hindsight you probably shouldn't have moved your barrage at all, or shift it towards my staging area instead of the area further back. I was expecting the barrage to be lifted at some point, and it allowed me start the attack without artillery falling around the objectives.
 

olaf

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Depending on timing and intensity of the strike, I guess ;-)

Although in hindsight you probably shouldn't have moved your barrage at all, or shift it towards my staging area instead of the area further back. I was expecting the barrage to be lifted at some point, and it allowed me start the attack without artillery falling around the objectives.
It was too tempting to target your two strykers packed together.
 

Ishfar

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i played way too conservatively and got smacked back. should have pushed with my btrs aggressively. also i don't know about how the others used the khrizanthemas but I found them quite ineffective. Half the time i could not spot anything, even with a constant stream of spotting info from all those drones flying above. They both got smacked by @MeatEtr 's mgs. would have much preferred kornet teams. they are small enough to hide in the tree line and for some reason they were getting far better spots than my khrizanthemas. the kornets actually killed stuff
 

olaf

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i played way too conservatively and got smacked back. should have pushed with my btrs aggressively. also i don't know about how the others used the khrizanthemas but I found them quite ineffective. Half the time i could not spot anything, even with a constant stream of spotting info from all those drones flying above. They both got smacked by @MeatEtr 's mgs. would have much preferred kornet teams. they are small enough to hide in the tree line and for some reason they were getting far better spots than my khrizanthemas. the kornets actually killed stuff
I actually agre about the khrizanthemas. I didnt have much trust in them to begin with. However I think I managed to utilize them to the fullest in this battle. It was all about placement. I will try to put up a video later showing this.
 

Ishfar

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I actually agre about the khrizanthemas. I didnt have much trust in them to begin with. However I think I managed to utilize them to the fullest in this battle. It was all about placement. I will try to put up a video later showing this.
yeah that would be nice. i am surprised that people found the scenario favouring the russians. I would say it is the exact opposite. Russian vehicles struggle to spot stuff even with spotting info from drones and the americans have javelins everywhere. add the mgs stryker there which while not having the best optics is still better than the khriz at spotting imo. The khriz takes time to spot and i had to keep on moving them constantly to avoid getting javelins so they never really spotted anything at all. On top of that the khriz does not have smoke of it's own so i really couldn't hide behind it and use the radar to target.
 

SlySniper

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the khriz needs units supporting it that can drop smoke so that it can operate without fear, if you use it without smoke, you deserve to lose it.

As for the battle, As is always the case, the players impact the outcome more than the scenario match up. But this battle is playing very balanced with 7 strong US scores in, 5 strong Russian scores in and two matches very close to dead even with only one battle left to report.
I feel the battle favors the US side, but they need to aggressively close the range quickly and get support weapons placed at appropriate distances.

But I saw some Russian play that shows that the units used by the right person, maybe the Russians do have the advantage.
 
i played way too conservatively and got smacked back. should have pushed with my btrs aggressively. also i don't know about how the others used the khrizanthemas but I found them quite ineffective. Half the time i could not spot anything, even with a constant stream of spotting info from all those drones flying above. They both got smacked by @MeatEtr 's mgs. would have much preferred kornet teams. they are small enough to hide in the tree line and for some reason they were getting far better spots than my khrizanthemas. the kornets actually killed stuff
Yeah both of those ATGM AFVs were KOed by area fire orders.... they just couldnt seem to spot them by themselves. Agreed your ATGM infantry teams did better or at least caused me more problems.

For me as the attacking US player, in a nutshell, I slow rolled this with my Jav teams leading the way. Think I lost like 3-4 AFVs to the ATGMs. Then lost another two Strikers taking the town in close. RPG teams just barely managed to get off two rockets seconds before being killed by mass 50 cal and 40mm nade fire.

Yeah looks like the Russian player is better off rushing into town, since you do have ATGM support.

Also not sure if you noticed @Ishfar towards the end I had a TRP where your BTR was and fired those precision shells, one per turn for like the last 4 turns, missed them all though. Was fun trying to make sniper shots with 120mm mortar LOL! :cool:
 

Raging Al

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I actually agre about the khrizanthemas. I didnt have much trust in them to begin with. However I think I managed to utilize them to the fullest in this battle. It was all about placement. I will try to put up a video later showing this.
I’d be keen to see that video of the Khriz in action. I had no luck with them either. One spot and shot between my two units and that shot appeared to go straight through a Stryker without harming it! In a separate incident I had witnessed a couple of AT-14 shots which both went underneath the same Stryker and exploded a few meters beyond! The AT-14 and -15 seem to travel at an agonising snail pace compared to TOW and Javelin which kill like whispering death!
 

Gladi

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I’d be keen to see that video of the Khriz in action. I had no luck with them either. One spot and shot between my two units and that shot appeared to go straight through a Stryker without harming it! In a separate incident I had witnessed a couple of AT-14 shots which both went underneath the same Stryker and exploded a few meters beyond! The AT-14 and -15 seem to travel at an agonising snail pace compared to TOW and Javelin which kill like whispering death!
There was something wrong with the trajectory of both kornet and khriz im ny game. Their missiles tended to arch left or right like a baseball and completly miss their targets, and by targets I mean stationary bogged down(?) strykers in the open. didn't want to mention it but I see it was not exclusive to my match. Also my AT-15 models looked like kornet and not AT-15 (supposed to be longer green missile IIRC). The latter problem might be a mode one though as I sometime ago installed lots of "conimatic" and higher res textures mods
 
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