Scenario and tactics discussion & AAR's,

SlySniper

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keep in mind , never post anything that could give away information about a present battle that others are playing.

Please save these items until all others have finished that round.
 

Accidental Italian

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So i was playing as the USMC in this scenario, i was expecting the BMPs but was not expecting the additional fire support (ZSUs and ATGMs), but my plan remained to keep my guys back and try and ambush my oppo either through keyhole positions or in tight alleys. Additionally, emptied both humvees of AT sso that my lads had abit of firepower against anything that came over.

Managed to knock out my oppos lead bmp as it exited the bridge, slowing any further traffic that would have tried to force a crossing. I kept the .50 Sniper team operating in the rear "section" of the town, popping up for a turn then moving to a new building to pop off rounds at any infantry or light vehicles they saw. While the 7.62 sniper team operated on my left, moving between houses doing the same.

I had planned to use the humvees in a crossfire position but unfortunately, by that point the fight was over.

While i came out with only a single loss myself, i inflicted few casualties on @The_MonkeyKing, so im unsure how thatll work in the grand scheme of things
 

SlySniper

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OK, I will start this off. I did not watch all the battles throughout. But I did watch a few and I did watch all the battles through the opening stages. So I found it interesting in that the first thing I will say, the commander is much more a factor than any units I provide for a side. Your use and decisions impacted the play the most.

Second: one of the best games I saw played by a player who might not be someone who wins points this round. But he is still on the bubble to get points, depends on the final game score. But I can tell you he was unlucky in that killing shots did not pay off for him, sometimes that is how it goes.


Marines
personally I think the biggest possible impact for these guys is on how the deploy and use the Automatic grenade Launchers. If they can get a chance to open up on the bmp's, they will kill them in a heart beat.

I think 3 BMP's for the two of them is a job well done if done right. That leaves only 2 bmp's and they can be taken out with the other AT assets.
Of course that requires that the Syrians give you the chance to see them. Some used smoke to cover much of their movement (offence controls how the battle will play).

In the battles I saw some trying to move and deploy the grenade Launcher. Not likely a successful concept in this battle. I recall one person achieving it and then getting some juicy targets.

The infantry one needed a initial great pinhole position. I award George MC with the best location in the match for one.

He can explain it better than I, but he managed to run out of ammo from the initial location and did get a kill.



One other tactic for the marines I wanted to mention, The 50 cal Sniper rifle. I only saw one player who understood and tried to use it as a anti armor weapon only.
They will punch trough the steel and if nothing else cause the unit to stop obeying players orders for a turn or two. But one player did set it for a armor arc only and I cannot recall how successful it was but I recall it getting multi penetrations before being spotted.

So there is a couple of things to start the conversation.

Next , we should talk about Syrians opening moves.
 

SlySniper

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Monkey King decided to blast away from a distance. Not a tactic that was going to work well at killing Marines. Especially since you had no real forward positions and most of your men were waiting for him to assault. So you were not challenged as much as the other Marine forces.

So it will pay off for you.
 

George MC

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I was playing the USMC. I'm a bit rusty with the weapon system capabilities of the Marines, so completely overlooked the 50cal sniper rifle! Doh! I did load up my guys with LAWs though and emptied the HUMVEES of their AT loadouts. The HUMVEES never really worked for me. I did have one good outcome which saw my HUMVEE KO a BMP then drive like stink straight along the street into the LOF of another BMP...

The wee infantry grenade launcher worked well for me. Chuffed the placement was good but TBh i couldn't find anyplace elsewhere it seemed to work. So there it went - pointing straight down the street onto the bridge. Worked really well - took out my oppos first BMP across the bridge before they ran out of ammo cos, well, I forgot to load em up with ammo...

Then I forgot to check how low they were getting. Then as I was thinking I'd best move these guys they all were killed...

I kept my guys moving using pop up firing positions, so they never fired more than a few rounds from one firing position before displacing to another, but my oppo was just as fly and made good use of a base of fire from all his assets, that and infiltrating with infantry, but things started to go awry the last few turns and by that stage, my oppo had his surviving BMPs in the streets (good charge across the bridge!).

I thought it was a grand wee tactically challenging scenario. A total blast, super fun, and drove home how I need to focus on the small scale tactical stuff.
 

holoween

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I was playing the USMC and i wasnt aware the 40mm grenades would have such an easy time destroying bmp2s from the front so i tried to set up the 50cal sniper and hummve as long range at and tried to delay by disendgaging after each unit fired to prevent the bmps from destroying me. Overall this didnt work at all and the only real damage i did to the vehicles ended up being my GMG which was set up to cover my retreat.

I think in hindsight the most succesful strategy would be to use all at assets available to prevent the syrians from leaving their deployment zone falling back whenever a position reveals itself by firing.
 
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Lethaface

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Syrian opening moves:
While I didn't know what to expect, I did expect the bridge being under fire of AT weapons. Also while very useful for supporting infantry in urban area's, BMP-2's aren't really my choice of assault tank. Given the available time and assets, I decided that a massive smoke barrage from all BMP-2 smoke launchers (which deploy forward offensive smoke), supported by heavy area fire on most positions with field of fire towards the bridge was the best opening possible. Unfortunately it proved tricky to actually get the technicals firing from hull down, while some BMP-2s also refused to fire at targets which had shown LOF in the order phase.
I did expect to come under fire and possibly lose some of those vehicles, so I used smoke, pause, shoot and scoot with with all infantry unloaded, but with orders for 1 platoon + breach team to mount up at the end of the 1st turn. Also, 1 platoon would hunt towards the bridge and quickly leg it forward through the smoke if safe. The ATGMs, techincals and 2 BMP-2's would stay back initially and provide area fires.

I'd thought to use the 20mm AA to shoot up the walls on the left, moving the mounted platoon of infantry in the BMP-2s through the walls and deploying in the complex, while shooting up same complex with the BMPs. The other platoon of infantry would infiltrate into the houses on the right side of the road, while the other BMPs, ATGMs and technicals would support their advance. I was thinking of bringing one ATGM forward with the jeep, but that never materialized.

That was the plan, execution went slightly different because things took longer than I had planned (not much time, so there probably was some healthy stress involved ;-)) and the wall failed to break, while I didn't want to wait/waste a minute of not being able to order units into the complex.
 

fivefivesix

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From the USMC side: my approach appears to have been a bit different. I didn’t want to engage any BMPs from range as I worried overwatching guns would chew up my AT assets. I allowed the enemy over the bridge freely and then engaged in ambushes from keyhole positions. I planned out paths of retreat and deployed in buildings in which I knew I’d be able to safely withdraw from and move to different firing positions. If a team was engaged one turn, they were moving the next turn. I also avoided using 2nd and 3rd floors of buildings and structures that were directly exposed to enemy BMPs. My opponent used an abundance of area fire on many of the structures I had deliberately avoided, as well as structures I had fled the previous turn. Like others did, I stacked teams with ammo and AT assets from the vehicles.

I managed to take out several BMPs and cause casualties using this method, unfortunately my grenade launcher team never fired a shot ... not sure if they were poorly positioned at the outset or if my opponent just didn’t happen to wander into their keyhole.
I lost one HMMWV (dismounted) when my opponent rushed the walled complex with BMPs as I was attempting to withdraw from the position ... one of those decisions you realize in hindsight you’ve made a turn too late. Most of my casualties came in the last few minutes when I let a sniper team engage targets and a BMP caught sight of them.
 

Gunsalot

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This was a blast!

Loved the use of smoke to cover @Lethaface´s attack. I judged the topfloors to be to nice of a position to abandon and instead had my men turning to face my side of the map or the floor below, in case of area fire. I did try to steer his attack into killzones after he entered the town proper by blowing up walls facing my side of the map and then rushing my engineers over the street to cover their rubble. I did not see much effect from that tactic but it might have been more of a mindstir (how bad of language is allowed here?) to Lethaface. At the end of the day I think only my engineers came out of this unscathed. I tried to get the .50 back in action but failed to realise the gun was bent or broken. Besides, the bmps ganged up on my other hummvee on the other side of the map.

Stuff I learned:

Hummvees have AT ammo. I totally forgot to give them to my infantry.

.50 cal can be an anti tank rifle. I know that that sniperteam did make shots at the bmps across the river but was surprised that they were penetrating and maybe doing significant damage.

Genius tactics used:

Using the engineers to deny the enemy cover.

Using the engineers to open up escape routes for my marines

Facing the "wrong" direction when expecting area fire into the top floors of buildings.

Hiding on the floor below area fireable buildings.

Fun, brutal, action packed and with awesome and daring moves on both parts I´d say.
 

Lethaface

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From the USMC side: my approach appears to have been a bit different. I didn’t want to engage any BMPs from range as I worried overwatching guns would chew up my AT assets. I allowed the enemy over the bridge freely and then engaged in ambushes from keyhole positions. I planned out paths of retreat and deployed in buildings in which I knew I’d be able to safely withdraw from and move to different firing positions. If a team was engaged one turn, they were moving the next turn. I also avoided using 2nd and 3rd floors of buildings and structures that were directly exposed to enemy BMPs. My opponent used an abundance of area fire on many of the structures I had deliberately avoided, as well as structures I had fled the previous turn. Like others did, I stacked teams with ammo and AT assets from the vehicles.

I managed to take out several BMPs and cause casualties using this method, unfortunately my grenade launcher team never fired a shot ... not sure if they were poorly positioned at the outset or if my opponent just didn’t happen to wander into their keyhole.
I lost one HMMWV (dismounted) when my opponent rushed the walled complex with BMPs as I was attempting to withdraw from the position ... one of those decisions you realize in hindsight you’ve made a turn too late. Most of my casualties came in the last few minutes when I let a sniper team engage targets and a BMP caught sight of them.
That sounds like sound tactics to me!
I was sort of scared @Gunsalot was doing this and staying back, while he was actually hiding his troops facing the other side of the buildings my 30mm was impacting, and unhid when I had stopped it.

This was a blast!

Loved the use of smoke to cover @Lethaface´s attack. I judged the topfloors to be to nice of a position to abandon and instead had my men turning to face my side of the map or the floor below, in case of area fire. I did try to steer his attack into killzones after he entered the town proper by blowing up walls facing my side of the map and then rushing my engineers over the street to cover their rubble. I did not see much effect from that tactic but it might have been more of a mindstir (how bad of language is allowed here?) to Lethaface. At the end of the day I think only my engineers came out of this unscathed. I tried to get the .50 back in action but failed to realise the gun was bent or broken. Besides, the bmps ganged up on my other hummvee on the other side of the map.

Stuff I learned:

Hummvees have AT ammo. I totally forgot to give them to my infantry.

.50 cal can be an anti tank rifle. I know that that sniperteam did make shots at the bmps across the river but was surprised that they were penetrating and maybe doing significant damage.

Genius tactics used:

Using the engineers to deny the enemy cover.

Using the engineers to open up escape routes for my marines

Facing the "wrong" direction when expecting area fire into the top floors of buildings.

Hiding on the floor below area fireable buildings.

Fun, brutal, action packed and with awesome and daring moves on both parts I´d say.
Yeah, was a great battle!
And I really liked your trick with the engineers, even though I noticed them and decided to avoid those buildings; it denied me usable cover on the advance (and lesser targets for 30mm). Didn't thought of using engineers on the defense like this before! While both your sniper team and grenade launcher scored kills from higher positions, I don't think balconies are good positions. I usually prefer staying low on the defense, especially if taking heavy casualties is a problem. For shooting and scooting RPGs or stationing expendable snipers at range; of course high rise buildings offer great opportunities.
 

SlySniper

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I think in hindsight the most succesful strategy would be to use all at assets available to prevent the syrians from leaving their deployment zone falling back whenever a position reveals itself by firing.
Interesting in you mentioning this. When I designed it, I tested it with the marines forward, laying out as much firepower as possible and then pulling back. It can work at giving the Syrians a good bloody nose, but if they bring all their fire power up at once, the marines will take some critical losses. that are hard to recover from.

But no player tried anything close to this tactic.
 

SlySniper

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Giving yourself a pat on the back, I see

But you are correct, You had a excellent use for how you used your engineers.

If its not clear to some reading, his one move was to blow out the back wall of a main building that the enemy would want to take and then set up across the street with a good amount of unit able to fire into it. A deathtrap. Almost every other battle this was a key building for the Syrians. He had a good move to deny that in this battle.

Plus if you were not careful as the marines, you could fall back into building that had no escape route. Well, the engineers can solve that issue.
 

SlySniper

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Ok, for the Syrian side, what do you think works better for a opening move.


Smoke and Rush.

lay a massive base of fire first, then rush (smoke or no smoke? )

Or my favorite, which no one used. (smoke half the front to cut it off from the action temp. and focus all my firepower on the half that is clear, then rush.)
 

JTimo

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@JTimo
Not sure about you, but I misunderstood the parameters / objective until I played the scenario and reread the briefing. If I would of read more careful I would have played it differently. Short and fun. I like these. Thanks, Sniper.
Yeah, with only 10 mins, understanding the briefing was very important. Syrian losses were not as important as blue casualties, and that was a big clue to how to best use your 10 minutes. Not sure why, but I play tested BMP smoke and was astounded to find it had a 110+ m range. That made it a tremendous offensive weapon. Covered my bridge crossing, and long streets.
 

SlySniper

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Another thing I saw that I don't do. In Hummers, you do not need to unbutton your crew man to get them to fire the top weapon. They will spot the enemy and pop up on their own and fire. I find this is better than being exposed up there and getting shot from a unseen enemy.

I saw at least 4 times this mistake, where some of you had them exposed with no known target and lost your gunner. Try leaving them in the hummer, you might like the results.
 

sspoom

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I sent the Jeep and a technical across at high speed followed by 2 bmps.
The second bmp took .50 cal fire and lost the driver.
I think the gunner popped smoke. I kept a bmp and technical on the far side overwatching while everything else but the AT launchers rushed across the bridge.
I did make a bad mistake in not giving my boys rpgs and had to send them back to the BMPs to up arm.
Then I concentrated infantry towards the objective while having the vehicles cover the main road and the far right. Lots of suppressing fire from the BMPs .
And a last few turn humvee hunt by them problably put me over the edge.
The marine grenade launcher gave me fits and I assume the .50 sniper killed crewmen on atleast one if not two BMPs.
I had most of my force across the River in about 4 minutes. (Disclaimer this is from memory without looking back at files) I had no Idea of the smoke capability of the BMPs.
 
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eniced73

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Playing as the USMC. My plan was similar to 556. Was playing it passive and going to let my opponent Sgt. Grunt move into my kill zones. Looking at it again I was not very efficient in setting them up. I had the main road in sight of a Grenade Launcher team and my .50cal Humvee but had my arcs set too short. Before I could move them into a better position Grunt was able to rush two BMP's and disembark troops right at the middle outside wall without issue. He tried an end around the wall and ran point blank into one of my squads that decimated them. I also had a point blank shot with an AT asset and the ole' force field tree block happened. ughh.

Grunt let loose with a turn of area fire and put my guys 'dicks in the dirt' for a turn. Surprisingly he obliterated the building but the team I had inside only had 1 casualty. He also used that to rush another two AFV's and a jeep across and to the wall complex. I moved a team from one of the buildings in the wall complex to its west entrance. I did not expect Grunt to blow the wall as he did in the following turns. Again, I did not have my Humvee or teams in good firing positions on the bridge. not sure why i neglected that. I did open up my Grenade Launcher and rush up my Mk19 Humvee which scored a couple direct hits on two AFV's but those where just shrugged off. My Humvee gunner did manage to get iron sighted in the head from across the bridge. Hell of a shot with an AK.

At this point I was feeling the pressure and with only 4 min left I figured an all out rush for the secondary objective was going to happen. I tried to pull my men back to form a defensive line. I normally do not like being on the defensive even when on defense. I like to pressure and put my opponent on his heels. For some reason I did not do that here and just fell back to try and minimize my losses. My men did manage to take out one AFV with a LAW. He blew the hole at the end of the turn so I was given a chance to reissue my orders for the team at the entrance of the walled complex to turn their arc towards the hole. His men came rushing through but my sniper took out most of those men as my scout team was displacing to set up.

Again area fire to the front walled area/ building. This time the the two men in that building were KIA. I only killed 13 men (11 credited towards my two Sniper teams) and 1 AFV. It was fun.
 
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