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Scenario and tactics discussion & AAR's,

Gunsalot

FGM Sergeant
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105
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No, the shilka got wrecked by one the IFV on the south hill. I´m thinking Sspoom thought that the north hill was cleared after he took out the shilka and sent this ... little thing over to get at my other stuff I had reverse sloping the the south hill. It was a really fun in the "OH SHIT!" kinda way to see this happen and react to it. Those seconds that it took the crew of the technical to spot, turn and shoot were aggrivating, all the while, my infantry had missed their point blank rpg shot and got shredded by that mg. And this machine is so small that it probably got transported to the AO on the back of a technical! I mean... LOOK AT IT! This little bundle of murder just leisurely strolled up behind my awesome flanking force and annihilated a squad of infantry in seconds. Is it driven by a midget? An amputee? If I had not just witnessed the killing power of this oversized landmower I would have thought it was a training toy like those bicycle planes used in wwI movies
 

Gnarly

FGM Lieutenant
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Melb, Oz
If I had not just witnessed the killing power of this oversized landmower I would have thought it was a training toy like those bicycle planes used in wwI movies

Like this? ;D

82406590.jpg
 

Lethaface

FGM 2nd Lieutenant
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1,139
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38
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The Netherlands
No, the shilka got wrecked by one the IFV on the south hill. I´m thinking Sspoom thought that the north hill was cleared after he took out the shilka and sent this ... little thing over to get at my other stuff I had reverse sloping the the south hill. It was a really fun in the "OH SHIT!" kinda way to see this happen and react to it. Those seconds that it took the crew of the technical to spot, turn and shoot were aggrivating, all the while, my infantry had missed their point blank rpg shot and got shredded by that mg. And this machine is so small that it probably got transported to the AO on the back of a technical! I mean... LOOK AT IT! This little bundle of murder just leisurely strolled up behind my awesome flanking force and annihilated a squad of infantry in seconds. Is it driven by a midget? An amputee? If I had not just witnessed the killing power of this oversized landmower I would have thought it was a training toy like those bicycle planes used in wwI movies
Lol :)
Those little nasty lawnmowers also pack a TOW-2 launcher, apart from that MG. It proved quite valuable in my game too, although it was unlucky enough to perish in a friendly fire fireball, of course during the last turn.
I did wonder how cramped they are buttoned up.
 

fivefivesix

FGM Corporal
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Joined
Feb 6, 2020
Messages
81
Location
USA
Thanks all for the kind words, enjoyable to put these together and enjoyed the game as well. Yes I think my ambushed paid off on this one, but in hindsight my deployment was ideal for a center rush attack. Looking at my deployment I probably would've been rolled up if my opponent attempted the northern hill as @SlySniper suggested. In this case I was able to hold up my opponents rush long enough to pick off the dangerous IFVs when the chance was available. Definitely one of those scenarios where a single turn can make or break it. Credit and well played to my opponent, I think I was just able to capitalize on some lucky breaks on this one.

Update: With help from the southern reverse slope, and without their IFVs, I am able to take out the remaining enemy salient. The remaining enemy IFV is shown below - I get a clean RPG shot from distance from the northern hill which misses. The enemy IFV pops smoke and reverses, then pulls forward again:

Screen Shot 2020-06-17 at 10.16.55 AM.png

My Shilka has been unable to spot anything so far. It comes under fire and takes some penetrations with no crew injuries or system damage, reversing to safety:

Screen Shot 2020-06-19 at 8.38.39 AM.png

Meanwhile I continue advancing my infantry forward:

Screen Shot 2020-06-19 at 8.41.41 AM.png

I outnumber the final IFV by far but also have serious doubts about the spotting capabilities of my AA technicals, Shilka, and BMP (see @Gunsalot video). My approach must be careful to avoid being picked off one-by-one by the much superior spotting enemy IFV:

Screen Shot 2020-06-20 at 3.55.31 PM.png
Screen Shot 2020-06-22 at 12.10.37 PM.png
Screen Shot 2020-06-22 at 12.11.44 PM.png
 

sspoom

FGM Company Sergeant Major
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Oct 21, 2016
Messages
778
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58
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Ohio
No, the shilka got wrecked by one the IFV on the south hill. I´m thinking Sspoom thought that the north hill was cleared after he took out the shilka and sent this ... little thing over to get at my other stuff I had reverse sloping the the south hill. It was a really fun in the "OH SHIT!" kinda way to see this happen and react to it. Those seconds that it took the crew of the technical to spot, turn and shoot were aggrivating, all the while, my infantry had missed their point blank rpg shot and got shredded by that mg. And this machine is so small that it probably got transported to the AO on the back of a technical! I mean... LOOK AT IT! This little bundle of murder just leisurely strolled up behind my awesome flanking force and annihilated a squad of infantry in seconds. Is it driven by a midget? An amputee? If I had not just witnessed the killing power of this oversized landmower I would have thought it was a training toy like those bicycle planes used in wwI movies
The weasel never saw the technical. I had my drone over the hill for 3 or 4 minutes and it didn’t see a thing.
 

Aurelius

FGM Colour Sergeant
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Joined
May 12, 2020
Messages
244
Age
29
Location
Ruma, Serbia
So, here's my plan>

SiDzcm1.jpg


While assessing the map and situation, I concluded that the Main Direction of the Attack of my opponent would be on the Objective Reverse Slope 1. As far as Objective Reverse Slope 2 is concerned, I concluded that it could be used for a feint.

While preparing my defense, I formed two Tactical Groups - Tactical Group "Shilka" (further in text TG Shilka) and Tactical Group "Beha" (further in text TG Beha). ZSU technicals I numbered 1-4 and assigned them their tasks.

As far as TG Shilka is concerned, it consisted of ZSU-23-4 and platoon of infantry reinforced by an RPG team. It's task was to stop the enemy on the Objective Reverse Slope 1, utilizing reverse slope positions and hull down positions.

TG Beha consisted of BMP 2 and reduced infantry platoon. The BMP 2 had a simple task - hit the enemy vehicles on the flank, once they appear. The infantry was there to provide security and observation.

ZSU 1 was attached to TG Beha. It was the first to open fire. It was hit with a MILAN atgm and destroyed, whole crew gone. ZSU 2 had the task of harassing anyone approaching Objective Reverse Slope 1. It did it's task well, stopped several advances, pinned my enemy for some 10-15 minutes. It was destroyed by 20 mm cannon fire, complete loss. ZSU 3 had similar task as ZSU 2. In the course of the battle it damaged two enemy Marders. Lived through the battle, used up the whole battle load. ZSU 4 had the task of harassing anyone approaching Objective Reverse Slope 2. It was redeployed to TG Shilka during the course of the battle, it damaged a Marder, was strafed by AH 64, vehicle was destroyed, two crew members survived.

As expected, TG Shilka bore the brunt of the enemy attack. It started as an infantry skirmish, which I won at first. As time passed, the lack of 7.62x54R meant that I started to loose fire superiority. I armed my teams with extra ammo, but that meant that they had 3 minutes worth of ammo. Furthermore, the side with the under-barrel grenade launchers started wining infantry skirmishes. Several well placed shots and I retreated further down the reverse slope. Once my opponent started his armored attack, that's when the things started getting interesting>

ZSU 4 damaging the Marder. The crew bailed it>

4qo0QHH.jpg


RPG team finishing the job>

LyF7rzX.jpg


The second Marder fell prey to the ZSU 3>

VxPkz5K.jpg


RPG hit him almost at the same time>

Hqn758I.jpg


As the battle was nearing it's end, my opponent charged his remaining Marders. Shilka opened fire on both, immobilizing them. Here are the images of the destruction of third and final Marder>

Mbk7GOG.jpg


0XeRYij.jpg


Once again, 23 mm fire pins, RPG's finish.

While the battle was raging on the Objective Reverse Slope 1, TG Beha observed. Through the length of the entire battle, I had trouble establishing and maintaining C2, even though everyone was in range of the CO. That is why I was hesitant to use the BMP 2. Still, they saw the entire force of my opponent, which helped out a lot.

BMP 2's only contribution was the destruction of Wolf utility vehicle with some infantry.

qcoLsaG.jpg


7ecGA0O.jpg


HoDiZH6.jpg


Here is the end state>

aAlwKbN.jpg


I am especially proud of the Shilka>

OUfUvEW.jpg


It was a fun and challenging scenario. At times, it was very frustrating watching as my opponent moved freely, but in the end, patience paid.

Edit: I made some more screenshots, which I will place on the screenshot section (probably tomorrow), so I won't overwhelm this thread (it already has a lot of images).
 

JTimo

FGM Company Sergeant Major
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Joined
Oct 8, 2015
Messages
507
I played the Germans against @Aurelius (see his AAR above). If you read that AAR, you'll know I lost badly.

My interpretation after reading the briefing was that his setup zone would be mainly in the village, possibly extending out on the map edge behind the village on either side. Given the back story, no Syrians were supposed to be there, so I expected to encounter a patrol sized force with some mobile transport. Perhaps as much as a platoon with a few BMPs and a technical for support.

I figured my challenge was to navigate the open approach, and clear the village of Syrians with literally no loss of German troops or vehicles and that the scoring penalty for such German losses would be extreme.

I expected that my opponent would take advantage of the large hill on my left flank by moving a squad with a BMP, and a maybe a technical into the area of the back edge of that hill. Also, if he was aggressive, he would attempt to move a mobile unit, either a BMP or a technical, around behind the hills on my right flank with the idea of getting behind me as I advanced along the road towards the village.

Given the openness of the map, I spent extra time in my pre-game analysis looking for the rises and depressions that would provide some protection as I advanced.

With that in mind, I moved my recon team to a position where they could observe any enemy movement on my right flank, while the remaining force moved on the village, first approaching the large hill on my left flank, dismounting a squad or two to recon across the top of that hill, and get eyes on its backside. I also sent my drone to view the area behind the hill.

As I approach my side of the hill, surprisingly, a technical appeared from behind a hill on my right. It put a few rounds on the jeep carrying my observer, and quickly retreated back. I area fired with a few Marders in the direction of the technical, which I later learned destroyed it, but I was confused, as my recon team had not observed any right flank movement. My drone had spent a few turns behind the large hill on my left without spotting anything, so I was confident there wasn’t anything major in that area, and I wanted to see where that technical was on my right so I repositioned the drone to that back-right map quadrant to go find it.

My dismounts then began their recon across the top of the large hill, getting about half-way across when one team took casualties from both small arms, and 20mm on the far side. The initial drone mission had obviously missed something, and I had only sound contacts from this initial encounter so I kept pressure from the top, while I attempted to get a better look by moving around the hill on its right.

By this time my drone had spotted the destroyed technical, and a live BMP in the back-right quadrant, another technical appeared from the village, and yet another from behind a hill mid-way up the right flank. I also had a light AFV contact with the technical contact behind large hill. I was surrounded, feeling like George Custer at the Little Big Horn. Aurelious kept most of these units safely out of sight, with occasional forays to dispense some harassing fire, but their presence made movement difficult. My drone had gotten knocked out, so my only real sighting was the BMP in the back-right quadrant.

As a squad supported by two Marders hunted around the right side of the large hill, Syrian cannon fire, from an unspotted source behind that hill, hit one Marder causing two crew casualties with the third member bailing out. An RPG round from another unspotted source destroyed the AFV. I then brought up another Marder to replace the destroyed one, leaving only one to provide overwatch for both my infantry on the hill top, and to cover against all the enemy vehicles I had previous spotted surrounding my force from the village and far flanks. As the Syrians can not see through my smoke, while my Marders can, I deployed smoke from the two Marders and moved behind it to get some sightings to what was behind the hill. Despite good LOS to that area, I did not spot anything.

At some point during all of this, he poked a technical out from the far right flank, and my over watching Marder scored a kill. Also I lost another Marder on the side of the hill, but this time I spotted the infantry unit that fired the RPG, and was able to take the unit out.

My choppers then became available, but I made another key mistake, attempting to allocate them separately. One behind the hill, and the other on the village. The second allocation was done using the platoon HQ and had an unacceptable 9 minute delay. So I cancelled both allocations, and reallocated using the air controller to attack behind the large hill. This mistake caused added delay. When they finally came on station, I made a desperate attack with my two remaining Marders toward the village. It was a foolish move in that I hoped the choppers would attack and destroy his technical and AFV behind the large hill before my Marders became exposed to their flanking fire. Didn’t work as one Marder was knocked out while the other became immobilized.

To add further insult, I lost both choppers. During this whole fiasco, I never spotted any of those enemy units, and only learned of his AA AFV when I saw it in the AAR review, so this just was not my game. Aurelius played a smart / patient game, letting me know his units had very good and threatening positions without actually exposing them to my fire power. He scored a major victory for which he should get good tournament points this round.
 

Lethaface

FGM 2nd Lieutenant
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The Netherlands
Nice AARs!

Interesting to see and read how people understood the briefing, different defense/attack plans. I too hadn't expected the Syrian to deploy directly to my right flank, luckily in my game they didn't afaik. I did however expect the Syrian player to try to ambush my forces from the right side of the map, so I positioned IFV and sniper to observe and overwatch. Also (luckily) my scout and sniper did manage to spot Denis's technicals on the right relatively quickly, so I knew I had to take measures to deal with those.
 

Gnarly

FGM Lieutenant
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Melb, Oz
Lol :)
Those little nasty lawnmowers also pack a TOW-2 launcher, apart from that MG.

If you didn't see it, here is another little lawnmower, post WW2 vintage.... Maybe a 'lite-technical'???


xg4nMh8.jpg
 

Raging Al

FGM Lance Corporal
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UK
My interpretation after reading the briefing was that his setup zone would be mainly in the village, possibly extending out on the map edge behind the village on either side. Given the back story, no Syrians were supposed to be there, so I expected to encounter a patrol sized force with some mobile transport. Perhaps as much as a platoon with a few BMPs and a technical for support.

I figured my challenge was to navigate the open approach, and clear the village of Syrians with literally no loss of German troops or vehicles and that the scoring penalty for such German losses would be extreme.
I interpreted the briefing same as yourself @JTimo. I assumed, as Germans, I’d have to get in quick (minimal casualties, very little initial enemy presence) and then hold the village/crossroads against some sort of counter attack (probably armour which, I assumed, was why I was given last minute air support) whilst the Syrians tried to recover their arms stash.

I certainly wasn’t expecting the Syrians to be holding both reverse slopes, but my oppo, @Accidental Italian, had positioned his reverse slope (both hills) really well and made me pay for my sloppy approach.

Lesson learnt: expect the unexpected. I’m enjoying the experience.
 

SlySniper

FGM Regimental Sergeant Major
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859
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The briefing was written to do just that - be mis-leading in that the allied forces send this unit into a unexpected ambush. Where as, the Syrian side describe a force that is not wanting to adhere to the cease fire and is intentionally wanting to pull Nato forces back into a war. They also intentionally leak information about this cache hoping to get this type of response and be able to spring a ambush.

Personally, I never trust any briefing much and always do what I can to have my units positioned to scout and provide security from unexpected positions that the enemy might come from.

Did not learn that from the game but from my time in the Service. Intelligence reports can help give you information to base decisions on, but I found that it was not wise to preplan that way. only after seeing evidence in the field that it appears accurate would I use it to make future decisions.

As for the choppers coming late. In the real world, it is very seldom you would have air support from the get go unless it was a anticipated major action that the support made sense. So this just represents the typical situation that air support is available, but is in stand-bye. Ready to respond to any local units needs if some thing presents itself.
Waiting for their arrival can be painfully long.
 

SlySniper

FGM Regimental Sergeant Major
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859
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KENTUCKY
Round 3 can now be discussed.

It should be interesting to hear what you think was the best tactic to use per side.

Because what worked for one guy might have failed for someone else.

For the Syrian, was it best to unload all their personnel at the start of the battle???


For the Dutch, What was the best way to move your forces as to the initial attack???
 

olaf

FGM Company Sergeant Major
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Norway
As the syrians I lost all vehicles but two in the first round. It was irrelevant that I unloaded all the trucks. They all got distracted by the enemy right away.
 

SlySniper

FGM Regimental Sergeant Major
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From what I saw, most groups were good if they managed to get 3 trucks away and out of danger.

But a few managed more than that.

I think it really depended on what your enemy did in the first move.
 

Gunsalot

FGM Sergeant
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105
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37
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Iceland
First round was DRIVE FAST! AREA FIRE EVERYTHING! And it got bloody in a heartbeat. I got some of my vehicles to safety but had the last technical hold in the ravine so that the terrified runners would have a chance to escape. I had the Kord and AT focus on the biggest caliber warwagons. Mortars were set to area fire at first but soon I wanted them to direct fire, it felt like the quickest way to switch targets with them. When the cavalry arrived, they got split between counter attacking and herding the stragglers back to the greenzone.

I´m happy with my minor victory. This was not a very tactical fight but I liked the frantic desperation of it. After loosing many of my vehicles early, the passengers and drivers made a hopefull run of it to safety, many got shot in the back. Some fled like the devil was dutch and hungry. I got the last runners into the greenzone in the very last minute. Those swimming BRDMs really saved the day I think, as I had two groups on the other side of that river.

Looking forward to see the score and starting round 4 in this tourney.
 

sspoom

FGM Company Sergeant Major
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778
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58
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Ohio
I played "Rat Patrol " style and hit hard in the first turns, but paid after that.
I left alot of my troops on the field either dead or broke.
 
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