Texas Shootings
- Thread starter Hedgehog
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I know how our cousins across the pond feel about guns...... Must be worth considering after this latest tragic event, surely a hand gun
would be good protection for USA citizens
would be good protection for USA citizens
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Only the government is responsible enough to have guns, huh?
Look at your own history. Kings and Queens forced your people into constant wars for a thousand years. Usually for lands or in "games of thrones."
6 million dead Jews might have appreciated firearms when the Nazis were rounding them up.
And in your Austrailia example.....the government of Austrailia was famously heavy handed during the Covid lockdowns.
The bottom line....history shows conclusively that given a long enough time period, governments WILL oppress their people.
This is a mental health issue more than anything else. Which is a point completely ignored by the media because they have an agenda.
Look at your own history. Kings and Queens forced your people into constant wars for a thousand years. Usually for lands or in "games of thrones."
6 million dead Jews might have appreciated firearms when the Nazis were rounding them up.
And in your Austrailia example.....the government of Austrailia was famously heavy handed during the Covid lockdowns.
The bottom line....history shows conclusively that given a long enough time period, governments WILL oppress their people.
This is a mental health issue more than anything else. Which is a point completely ignored by the media because they have an agenda.
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I understand that the free or easy access to having an assault rifle in the northern country influences a madman to do something crazy like that.
And that permission is protected by the Constitution, at least that's what I heard on television.
The truth is that here, accessing to have a firearm in the house -at least legally- is somewhat complicated (not to mention an assault rifle), I must admit that I would like the permits to be facilitated.
I had the opportunity to see the video (uncensored I mean) that the murderer recorded when carrying out the massacre. They really look like scenes from a video game.
And that permission is protected by the Constitution, at least that's what I heard on television.
The truth is that here, accessing to have a firearm in the house -at least legally- is somewhat complicated (not to mention an assault rifle), I must admit that I would like the permits to be facilitated.
I had the opportunity to see the video (uncensored I mean) that the murderer recorded when carrying out the massacre. They really look like scenes from a video game.
<Admin Hat On>
Let's keep it civil guys. It's a tragedy what happened in Texas and people probably want to say a few words, but every time these types of posts appear it usually turns into some USA Members vs the rest. @Bootie
<Admin Hat Off>
@Nemesis - Really suggest you double check your facts about Australia and COVID. We just had a Federal Election on the weekend where the "Freedom Parties" polled a minuscule amount of votes and influenced nothing at the end of the day, while the smaller left leaning parties and independents surged ahead. There are elements that think the Government was very heavy handed, no doubt, but virtually all the restrictions have lifted now to be pre-2020. Australia and New Zealand both had restrictions on travel and there were lock downs early on to suppress the virus when there was no vaccine but we also didn't see death rates like other parts of the world. Not to mention 95%+ vaccination rates across out adult populations. I've had these debates many times here and elsewhere and I put it down to most of our populations still having a sense of community and the need to work together (including Government led) to meet challenges. I think that's been lost in places like the USA where many assume a threat around every corner.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/federal/2022/results/party-totals (Orange and brown are you "Freedom Parties").
Let's keep it civil guys. It's a tragedy what happened in Texas and people probably want to say a few words, but every time these types of posts appear it usually turns into some USA Members vs the rest. @Bootie
<Admin Hat Off>
@Nemesis - Really suggest you double check your facts about Australia and COVID. We just had a Federal Election on the weekend where the "Freedom Parties" polled a minuscule amount of votes and influenced nothing at the end of the day, while the smaller left leaning parties and independents surged ahead. There are elements that think the Government was very heavy handed, no doubt, but virtually all the restrictions have lifted now to be pre-2020. Australia and New Zealand both had restrictions on travel and there were lock downs early on to suppress the virus when there was no vaccine but we also didn't see death rates like other parts of the world. Not to mention 95%+ vaccination rates across out adult populations. I've had these debates many times here and elsewhere and I put it down to most of our populations still having a sense of community and the need to work together (including Government led) to meet challenges. I think that's been lost in places like the USA where many assume a threat around every corner.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/federal/2022/results/party-totals (Orange and brown are you "Freedom Parties").
It's a pointless debate... shooting... thoughts & prayers... rinse and repeat...
Surely you quoting history doesn't do any thing for your future, that's why consideration to change the laws on high powered weapons should be changed
There have been 199 mass shootings in the US in 2022. There have been 27 school shootings. There have only been 144 days this year.
@Nemesis
If I may engage in dialogue.
While I don't disagree with your contention that this is in large part a mental health issue, particularly insofar as it pertains to the individuals who carry out these heinous attacks. As an outsider constantly it seems receiving these news stories, the conundrum comes when one stops to ponder the question why is it then that the U.S. appears to be so uniquely impacted by this particular mental health issue when compared to virtually all other countries around the world?
As your neighbor to the north, and a peoples who partake & share together in so many varied aspects of North American life in common with our southern neighbors that side-by-side we are often virtually indistinguishable from one another, we also have a fairly high degree of gun ownership in our country but yet see no where near the same amount of mass shootings that appear to happen with such depressing frequency in the U.S. Why then do so many other countries do not manifest this same penchant for the indiscriminate taking of innocent lives in mass shootings? Your thoughts?
Regarding your concerns about government oppression, while again I am in no way dismissive of your views in that regard, from my perspective this touchstone belief in the power of the barrel too poses a certain conundrum when trying to think it through to its logical conclusion. If one takes the view that individual gun ownership is the appropriate counter-weight to government oppression, then I must ask myself, against who exactly are these guns to be used? By what criteria and against what individuals or identifiable entities are these guns to be trained upon & inevitably fired?
I trust you will agree that it is highly unlikely that the 'oppressors' however they may ultimately be defined, will be walking around in identifiable uniforms for one to take a shot at. So exactly how is the individual gun owner expected to go about separating the 'good' fellow citizens from the 'bad' fellow citizens should it ever come to that?
This is not to make light of the issue, I believe I can understand the sentiment, but generally speaking I would argue most popular uprisings against oppressive regimes that do succeed in significantly changing the status quo, succeeded by generally peaceful means of non-violent mass protests, general strikes and the like. While isolated incidents of 'violence' do occasionally punctuate these uprisings, they alone do not propel these uprisings forward. So I am at a loss to understand how is the individual gun owner is expected to be a bulwark against oppression, simply by virtue of possessing an assault rifle? Your thoughts?
Cheers!
I have bigger fears. There is no question that the US is in the midst of a culture war, that is only getting worse by the day. I also think that the Left does not have an appreciation for how violently the Right is boiling just below the surface. If we can’t find some way to break this ugly spiral, both sides will claim the moral high ground and “exercise their Second Amendment rights.” At that point, I will need to sleep on your couch @Bones26
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I would argue that both sides are boiling. The 7 months of riots in 2020 showed that. Both political parties don't even see the voters who voted for the opposite political party as legitimate citizens.
The United States is badly divided. A "perfect storm" series of events could lead to a serious conflict.
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BTW, Canada is more divided than most Americans might realize. Ontario vs Quebec. The conservative, oil producing center of Canada vs more liberal parts of the nation. The West of Canada looking to Asia as the East looks to Europe. Lots of angst among the native populations. Disagreement on the appropriate level of cooperation with the US. The list goes on.
The heavy handed response to the truckers shows how both sides have contempt for each other.
Oddly, in Canada, the liberals are the flag waving patriots. Pretty much the opposite of the US.
A good video by a person who is Canadian and American:
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Just saying.
All the gun crime is not making me feel like disarming.
All the gun crime is not making me feel like disarming.
There are too many weapons in this country in the hands of criminals for them to be taken away from law abiding citizens. Right now there are so many gun laws on the books that are ignored because our justice system has a catch and release attitude toward the violent of our society. Politicians are afraid to “offend” their base by putting violent criminals in jail for a long time. All too often violent criminals are released to kill again and again. The only solution the talking heads have is to take firearms away from law abiding citizens. Yet these talking heads all have highly paid heavily armed bodyguards
@Nort
I share your apprehensions regarding the anxieties that are presently percolating under the surface in your country. It seems almost palpable these days given the rhetoric between the more extreme elements on both sides of the political divide and which is all too often gleefully magnified by the MSM for their own commercial interests. In fact, I was saying to my wife just last night that I would not be at all surprised to see some truly horrific explosion of violence occurring this summer as a result of these very tensions. I sincerely hope I’m wrong. (But if I’m not, Nort, you are of course welcome to my couch, but not a word about our winters, O.K.?
)What I find particularly notable in the States, although I should hasten to add is also becoming increasingly more prevalent here as well in my country, is this penchant to immediately define every aspect of contention in our daily lives as either a Left or Right paradigm of existential importance. As if everyone & everything in dispute must always inevitably fall under this simple binary construct. As but one example, is it not possible for large segments of the population to be in favour of Roe vs Wade but also be an opponent of more stringent gun control, and ambivalent or neutral on the question of Russia - Ukraine? Where are these folks supposed to fall?
Not to be too naïve about it, but I think one possible means of breaking this spiral would be to the train ourselves to instinctively ignore any of the ‘political’ identities that are immediately applied to any cultural issue by the talking heads in the public sphere as they inevitably create an us versus them bias which too often precludes any further intelligent debate and resolution of the issue. As we simply can’t let the other side claim a ‘win’.
Instead we need to teach ourselves to view these issues through a different lens. One where achieving a compromise based on mutual accommodation is the end goal and is how success is measured and celebrated in our societies.
But even more critically I would suggest that by continually emphasizing cultural issues as points of contention & division amongst the citizenry, important attention is taken away from the real fundamental economic issues that more concretely impact a vast majority of our population’s daily lives and futures and I would argue underpin this mounting anxiety coursing through our societies. Be they left or right, black or white or yellow or red, liberal or conservative, religious or secular, pro-gun or anti-gun, pro-life or pro -abortion, gay, straight or trans and so on and so on and so on, at the end of the day, the basic economic realities that the 99% of us our confronted with matter much more to the health, security, stability and futures of our families and neighbors and by extension contribute to the strength & resilience of our societies than claiming some moral win in the never ending culture wars.
But hey, that’s just what I have been thinking, your mileage may of course vary.
Cheers!
@ sspoom
You'll excuse me if I'm wrong as this database does not include the most recent shootings, but I don't believe the recent spate of mass shooting were perpetrated by persons with a violent criminal background.
For reference, up until March 2021 just over half, 53.5% of the perpetrators of these acts, had a criminal record together with a history of violence. Which means by extension that 46.5% of these perpetrators were law abiding citizens before committing these crimes. Coincidently, that 46.5% is the same percentage of persons who legally acquired the guns used in their crime.
While 53.5% is not an insignificant percentage I would concede, given the U.S. currently incarcerates more people than any other country on earth including China, if prison were uniquely the solution to this issue then it should follow the U.S. would be one of the more peaceful societies around.
Key Findings - Comprehensive Mass Shooter Data - The Violence Project
The findings from The Violence Project's Mass Shooter Database are known worldwide. Explore the data we have pulled from our database as key insights.
www.theviolenceproject.org
Cheers!
I wasn’t referencing the current “mass” shootings just criminal behavior and results in general. Nothing short of 100% confiscation will stop mass shooters. Look into monthly shooting numbers in the large cities and you will get a better idea of what I was talking about. Nothing the talking heads are talking about concerning “common sense gun laws” would have stopped any mass shooters. Most of the things they referenced (except assault weapons bans) are already on the books.
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Actually, some states have "assault weapon" bans.
And the murder rates in those states are the same as states that allow "assault weapons."
Criminals, by definition, don't care about laws.
And I keep putting quotes around "assault weapons" because everyone has a different definition.
@Nemesis
I've always contended the whatever transpires in the States will & does eventually percolate its way up North in one fashion or another. Given our geographic proximity, shared commercial entities, disparity in size & influence and cultural commonality in so many areas, I used to believe that the time lapse between a contentious societal trend or issue manifesting in the States and it then appearing in some meaningful fashion in our own society was between 5 - 10 years. However like so much else in our world and the infiltration of social media as a medium into the social discourse I now believe that that time frame has dramatically shortened. All which explains my own personal interest in current U.S. affairs & trends as they often portend those same issues eventually entering our public discourse in one fashion or another and the potential impact that might have on our evolution.
With respect to the video and in particular its reference to immigration and demographics, that is an interesting subject in its own right, especially in light of the heat the southern border question generates in the States. However what is evident from the numbers and which is not in dispute, is that not only Canada but virtually all Western democracies, including the U.S., as well as other important regions of the world (China) are all collectively facing a crisis in the replacement rate of their national population, which does not bode well for the future for all societies and is something that needs to be discussed more rationally without the emotional baggage now attached to it.
Economic consequences of population decline - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Lastly, an interesting video regarding the future of Canada, but still not a future scenario that I would personally subscribe to.
Thanks for sharing.Cheers!
(P.S. For what its worth, I lived, worked and traveled extensively in both the U.S. and Europe (I was based in Paris to be precise) for three years in each country. A most interesting and enjoyable experience).
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Let me ask you, as you are a resident of Quebec. What do you think will happen if Quebec holds another referendum and votes in favor of sovereignty?
There were two referendums on this and one nearly passed.
There were two referendums on this and one nearly passed.