Enough is enough - Umlaut retiring

[Umlaut]

Hi FGM´ers. I´ve decided to leave this club.
The amount and tone of far right wing views expressed on this site has simply reached a level I can no longer tolerate.

I am referring to utterances like:

- ordinary "hate speech", such as calling Obama a communist

- derogative remarks on ethnic and religious groups such as turks and muslims

- posting of anti-immigrant "jokes"

- glorification of racist violence and nazi bands.

I simply don´t want to part of a community where these views seem to be the norm rather than the exception.

A couple of months ago I had enough. I remarked that I believed that this was a "wargaming and military history discussion club" and suggested that people moved their political views elsewhere. I was informed by Bootie that the discussion forum is open for any discussion.

Fair enough. That is in many respects a completely laudable and democratically minded stance. And you could say that since this freedom of expression also applies to me, I could simply exercise my own right by stating my own political views in the forums. Sure, I could do that. But I won´t: I joined FGM to play CM, discuss the game and share mods - not to discuss politics. I have neither the time nor the desire to spend my spare time in fruitless political debates. When I want to discuss politics online I don´t go to a wargaming club.

On the other hand I can´t just ignore these ravings. When I watch a post with a video glorifying skinhead violence it sickens me and I want to react. To turn the blind eye on something like that, would to me almost equal complicity by silence.
So to put it shortly it seems as if I´m damned if I do react - and damned if I don´t.

My point is that by having no boundaries on the debate on the forums, FGM has in my view let itself become a site dominated by these right wing views. Thus, I think that FGM more and more presents itself as being a club for xenophobics and even nazi sympathizers. If that is what FGM wants to be, that is fine by me: Extremists are entitled to clubs too.

I just don´t want to be a member.

Cheers,
Umlaut

[video=youtube;O0OzZ3yG3mE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0OzZ3yG3mE[/video]

 

[Bootie]

Ok... goodbye. I have no intention of stifling peoples right to free speech to please you. Thanks for your input.

People are free to join and free to leave as they wish... if anyone else wishes to leave just tell me and I will remove you from the members list like I have just done with Umlaut.

 

[Hedgehog]

Ok... goodbye. I have no intention of stifling peoples right to free speech to please you. Thanks for your input.

People are free to join and free to leave as they wish... if anyone else wishes to leave just tell me and I will remove you from the members list like I have just done with Umlaut.

Nicely put mate, Some people I just don't understand why they can be so touchy
if you don't like a programme turn it of you don't have to run away

 

[PoorOldSpike]

.. FGM has in my view let itself become a site dominated by these right wing views.....glorification of racist violence and nazi bands...

Huh? I posted this 10 minutes ago and it don't look like it's glorifying them to me- Hitler's gassing of 6 million unarmed civilian Jews was an outrageous cowardly massacre.

And earlier this year I said the black Archbishop of York John Sentamu was one of the finest christians I know. Nothing racist there either.

 

[2054172]

It is sad that you feel this way friend...I have not picked up any vibes like you discribe...I am about as far from being a nazis as can be...I have not seen you post here much anyway, for or against anything. Even in the Gaming section. Though I must say there were some good points that the National Socialist did to pull Germany from the dumps...Things did go to far in many areas also. I think you are being rash and unfair.But far be it from me to say what you need to say and do, it is a free world so far. Good luck with you adventures .

 

[Bootie]

He is entitled to his views. Anything blatantly racist WILL get removed. But in relation to the Romper Stomper clip he is referring to it is from a film of the same name. Films educate you and Romper Stomper doesnt glorify anything as can be seen from this piece of critique that was posted on the IMDb.

Some people have said that the film glorifies skinheads. I would have to ask those people, WHAT FILM WERE YOU WATCHING? This film presents skinheads and their society and says this is the way it is. It does not glorify, nor does it jump on a soapbox. Not to tip anything off, but by the end of the film I don't think there are going to be too many people saying "being a skinhead is a wonderful life." In fact, I think that is why the film is so good. The subject matter is not black and white, it is very gray. Skinheads exist for a reason, they do things for a reason. The reasons might sound immoral to us, but the world is made up of different types. In fact, most of the movie deals with Hando (Russel Crowe) trying very hard to hold his skinhead bunch together. However, the destructive nature of the characters is bringing about the destruction of their lifestyle.

 

[enven]

Ok, speaking of my choice of music and enjoyment for the old skrewdriver stuff does not make me a racist, or far right. I am a huge fan of old punk - Combat 84, IRON CROSS, and other good oi punk/gutter punk stuff. I mean, what the heck? You're gonna tell me I am a communist cause I listen to the band Dystopia? Or an Anarchist/Nhilist for listening to Amebix?...

I guess music makes you some sort of horrible person, thanks for clarifying that Umlaut.

As for each persons views...There was a saying about everyones views/opinions...

Everyones got one...and you know the rest...
-

Seeya later Umlaut.

 

[USS Wyoming]

Huh, I thought it was over the Wounded Knee commentary, as that was the last thread posting before I took a quick nap.

If it was something from the music thread, I'll plead ignorance because the music thread doesn't interest me so I don't visit it.

Seems that nearly all of our political discussion surrounds historical events with a few posts directed at the American political environment. Heck, I wished there was a bit more about European politics bandied about on the forums just to help me understand some of the nuance of their systems. The lack of discussion of European politics suggests to myself that many Europeans are not invested in their political processes.

 

[Keissi]

The lack of discussion of European politics suggests to myself that many Europeans are not invested in their political processes.

The problem, as it were, with this - atleast in my opinion - is that when talking about European politics you can discuss the politics of a single country or the politics of the EU.

It is easier to rummage around the pros, cons and sides of US politics even though the country is a huge slab of land with a population of wide ethnic, political and financial background. It is still A country, and in some unison with itself. If debating European politics, you can talk about how the secularist government works in Turkey or should the prime minister of Finland or our president attend global warming conventions. But this requires (or at least SHOULD require) expertise on the country whose politics you are talking about, or you should be a (n informed) citizen to know all the sides of the dice. So put bluntly, only Finns can talk finnish politics. And this brings me to the problem of talking about EU politics.

I'm 22 and I try to follow the news and read the background info and historical relations of events and I try to keep up with what's going on in the union. But somehow, the things that catch my ear are things such as "the EU sets a standard length of cucumbers" or "The EU standard sized condom is too big for German men". I don't mean to say that the EU is about standardizing stupid things, but that the level of things decided upon that is still somewhat understandable to a regular European is pretty grassroot stuff. To truly be able to debate upon inter union decisions and differences in politics of member countries requires a high level of interest and expertise in national differences, historical background and such.

And even though the internet offers a great medium for idiots to parade their views and opinions, I won't comment on a subject I'm not familiar with. I try and live by "If you don't know anything about it, keep your mouth shut."
So to what my nonsensical rambling culminates in, is that it's not that many eurousers are not invested in politics, it's just that discussing them - on a rational level - isn't all that easy.

And yes, I know that Turkey isn't a part of the EU - yet...

 

[zaraza]

If i knew that that clip will cause this kind of reaction i wouldn't post it. But, obviously, clip itself is not a problem. I didn't get impression that anyone around here is nazi fan, no matter what kind of music he or she is listening...I also like Satyricon and Cradle Of Filth but that does not make me satanist. I also like sound of Indian scale, and again, that does not make me buddhist or whatever...So, i dont feel i need to justify myself for this kind of posts.

This is also history related forum, and sooner or later some politics must be involved...

About the "jokes"....It's not "jokes" it's jokes. I, really, don't see anything bad about it.

@Keissi
You'll get your file today, i marked our conversation as read, and forgot about our game...

 

[2054172]

The problem, as it were, with this - atleast in my opinion - is that when talking about European politics you can discuss the politics of a single country or the politics of the EU.

It is easier to rummage around the pros, cons and sides of US politics even though the country is a huge slab of land with a population of wide ethnic, political and financial background. It is still A country, and in some unison with itself. If debating European politics, you can talk about how the secularist government works in Turkey or should the prime minister of Finland or our president attend global warming conventions. But this requires (or at least SHOULD require) expertise on the country whose politics you are talking about, or you should be a (n informed) citizen to know all the sides of the dice. So put bluntly, only Finns can talk finnish politics. And this brings me to the problem of talking about EU politics.

I'm 22 and I try to follow the news and read the background info and historical relations of events and I try to keep up with what's going on in the union. But somehow, the things that catch my ear are things such as "the EU sets a standard length of cucumbers" or "The EU standard sized condom is too big for German men". I don't mean to say that the EU is about standardizing stupid things, but that the level of things decided upon that is still somewhat understandable to a regular European is pretty grassroot stuff. To truly be able to debate upon inter union decisions and differences in politics of member countries requires a high level of interest and expertise in national differences, historical background and such.

And even though the internet offers a great medium for idiots to parade their views and opinions, I won't comment on a subject I'm not familiar with. I try and live by "If you don't know anything about it, keep your mouth shut."
So to what my nonsensical rambling culminates in, is that it's not that many eurousers are not invested in politics, it's just that discussing them - on a rational level - isn't all that easy.

And yes, I know that Turkey isn't a part of the EU - yet...

I also think that for some people it is hard for them to understand politics north and south of their boarder, let alone across an ocean.