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Panzer_Kraut

Guest
Good Day All.

I'm looking for detailed info on the view distances for Infantry & Vehicles during the variety of weather settings in the game. Could anyone be so kind as to point me into the right direction where I might find the info, or if someone already has the info, would they please share it with me.

Day Time & Night Time Distances:

Hazy
Thick Hazy
Overcast
Light Rain
Heavy Rain
Downpour
Mist
Mist & Rain
Light Fog
Light Fog & Rain
Heavy Fog
Dense Fog
Flurries
Light Snow
Heavy Snow
Blizzard

A great big Thank You in advance.
 
I do not believe this information is available in a table somewhere. If it was I don't think it would help to much really. The Target LOS tool already gives you an indication of what the limits are in the game. Note the LOS tool shows you the limit of your effective fire and is probably a little longer than the limits of spotting. If BFC has not provided this information I think it will be difficult for us to measure it because the game lacks the "Insta Spot" (tm) :) What I mean is that just because an enemy enters you field of view does not mean your soldiers spot that enemy right away. Which means to actually measure the limits of spotting would require a statistical analysis and a lot of waiting around.

On top of that the terrain features impact this as well. How would numbers gather on an open flat field differ from patches of brush and elevation changes you see in the actual game.

What might actually help you is to use the in game tools (the target LOS tool) to get an idea of the maximum distance your guys will see or be seen and then factor in that you might be surprised so treat that number conservatively.
 
Perhaps plonk down an infantry and vehicle unit on a perfectly flat featureless map (created in map editor) in differing weather conditions, and use the LOS tool to at least ballpark the view distance to give you an idea?
 
For identical conditions (e.g., night with Light Rain) you will get variable LOS distances. I have played mirror matches with identical conditions and the distances that units could see varied from one game to another.
 
A Canadian Cat said:
I do not believe this information is available in a table somewhere. If it was I don't think it would help to much really. The Target LOS tool already gives you an indication of what the limits are in the game. Note the LOS tool shows you the limit of your effective fire and is probably a little longer than the limits of spotting. If BFC has not provided this information I think it will be difficult for us to measure it because the game lacks the "Insta Spot" (tm) :) What I mean is that just because an enemy enters you field of view does not mean your soldiers spot that enemy right away. Which means to actually measure the limits of spotting would require a statistical analysis and a lot of waiting around.

On top of that the terrain features impact this as well. How would numbers gather on an open flat field differ from patches of brush and elevation changes you see in the actual game.

What might actually help you is to use the in game tools (the target LOS tool) to get an idea of the maximum distance your guys will see or be seen and then factor in that you might be surprised so treat that number conservatively.
Click to expand...

The LOS tool... .hmmm.... Night LOS is an interesting situation and highlights some issues in the LOS tool. The current battle I'm running in the Scottish Corridor campaign is a night mission, the second of the campaign. In the first night battle my LOS at night was around 50 to 80 meters, in the current battle it's almost zero. I'm sure the time, cloud cover etc. plays a part but what is really interesting is the illuminate of fire. When vehicles have caught light they illuminate the surrounding area in the 3d world of the game that we see, but it also appears to luminate the soldiers visibility. I'm not sure if it's true game mechanics or just my interpretation but it certainly seems that way. I've actually started moving vehicles and troops away from burning vehicles, or placing them behind, to limit illuminating my forces. Enemy soldiers around an exploding vehicle suddenly become visible when previously they were not. It's a shame the game doesn't simulate flares or parachute flares.

Back to the point raised. When I'm using the LOS line tool in this battle to judge distance my vehicles and troops can get visibility or LOS of over 150 meters, however a 40t Jagdpanther trundles past and actually 'clips' the AT gun before it's spotted by the AT gun crew, freaking the s**t out of them. Spotting distance and LOS is somewhat of a black art in CM, something only really learnt through experience and practice and I don't believe any table will give an indication let alone be a guide.
 
DoubleD said:
Spotting distance and LOS is somewhat of a black art in CM, something only really learnt through experience and practice and I don't believe any table will give an indication let alone be a guide.
Click to expand...

Yeah and frankly things kinda break down at close distances anyway and with low visibility things get worse. These kinds of extreem conditions are not where CM shines.
 
@A Canadian Cat, I’m actually enjoying the situation. Whilst it’s frustrating, if anyone has ever been out in the fields or woods at night when there are no street or building lights and no torches your reliant on the night sky. Clouds or little moon light and one can see very little. I’m getting multiple sound contacts and as I’d expect they can be contradictory and confusing. If illumination is simulated I wonder if flares and parachute flares could be simulated. This would add depth and realism.

Oh well, back to skulking in the dark waiting to ambush Jerry :eek:
 
Nemesis said:
For identical conditions (e.g., night with Light Rain) you will get variable LOS distances. I have played mirror matches with identical conditions and the distances that units could see varied from one game to another.
Click to expand...

I believe this is because "night" gives you a random time of the night, and depending on the date, there might be a moon or not (and it might be full, or half, and even only rise after 30 minutes, etc)
 
DoubleD said:
When vehicles have caught light they illuminate the surrounding area in the 3d world of the game that we see, but it also appears to luminate the soldiers visibility. I'm not sure if it's true game mechanics or just my interpretation but it certainly seems that way.
Click to expand...

It doesn't, sorry. I wish it did.

DoubleD said:
When I'm using the LOS line tool in this battle to judge distance my vehicles and troops can get visibility or LOS of over 150 meters, however a 40t Jagdpanther trundles past and actually 'clips' the AT gun before it's spotted by the AT gun crew
Click to expand...

The way I see it, the LOS tool shows the maximum range there's a _chance_ of a spot. That chance might be incredibly small, and it gets worse and worse with distance. That's what's so difficult about estimating visibility in CM. The player is really flying blind (but experience with the game helps a little bit).

(also, if you play Iron mode, you can pick up clues from how easily your own troops spot each other...)
 
There's another thing that complicates it further.

I'm currently playing "Road to Bastogne", and in the second mission, it's 9 in the morning and there's light fog. I measure the LOS and get a blue line to about 320m. Now, this should mean I have a chance to spot within that distance. Ok.

But will I be able to spot enemy muzzle flashes further out than that? If so, apprx. how much further? 10 pct., 20 pct. 50 pct, 300 pct.?

It's pretty important for my tactics, because if I set up my tanks in a hull down position, I need to know if they have any kind of chance of firing back (and if I can count on the fog to shield my flank)

Currently I am just looking at the setup screen and realising that even after playing for years, I still have no clue. Darkness and clear conditions are easier, because you can see how dark it is while playing Iron Mode, and then you know that muzzle flashes can be seen extremely far (1km+). But with fog, I don't know... The only thing I know is that there is some kind of extra distance spotting bonus against firing units.
 
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CMFDR said:
Good day dear @Panzer_Kraut

Carlos committed an article on that very topic : http://www.combatmission.fr/concept...e/meteo-heure-de-la-journee-et-lignes-de-vue/
Yikes, it's in French, but the tables may be decipherable and I'll be pleased to put some words (hopefully clarifying) onto anything lost in translation, by Google or else.
Click to expand...

This is brilliant, thanks for sharing! However, the values of their table are also affected a lot by the season. For example, it says at 09:00 I should get 760m LOS in light fog. However, in CMFB in December, I only get 170m at that same time. But a later scenario that takes place at noon does provide 760m visibility.

Interesting how light rain and mist both degrade LOS when appearing individually. But when combined, the LOS doesn't degrade further. Mist gives the same LOS as Mist & Rain combined. Same with Mist + Light Fog.
 
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Good point .

For the first part of his table Carlos collected the data he observed in CMRT (3.0), the 22nd of June. As for the second part dealing with winteresque weather, he went into CMFI Gustav Line (2.12 ) but he doesn't mention a date.
 
CMFDR said:
Good point .

For the first part of his table Carlos collected the data he observed in CMRT (3.0), the 22nd of June. As for the second part dealing with winteresque weather, he went into CMFI Gustav Line (2.12 ) but he doesn't mention a date.
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Did you find any general rules about the chances of actively spotting enemies within the LOS distance?

For light fog, I find that chances of spotting are quite good up to about halfway to max LOS. In the last 1/3 of LOS distance, spotting becomes hard, and in the last 1/6 of the distance, I can only spot an enemy tank if it fires.

But this is based on my personal experiences, not tests.
 
Meat Grinder said:
Guys, CM is just a computer game.
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I get what you mean, and it's good not to become too obsessive about anything.

But at the same time, if CM were just a computer game, I wouldn't be playing it :)

I've played a lot of games in my life that were just computer games. CM is the only one that induces this "rage to master" compulsion.
 
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