Three Towns (Stafford vs Drifter Man DAR)

[Bulletpoint]

He probably send in his AFVs and scout cars in first to meet up with @Drifter Man's forces.

Yes, that would be my take on it too.

But the thing I don't understand is first of all why he's sending empty carriers north - if these are the carriers of a mortar group, you'd think that he'd have their carriers parked directly behind the mortars out of sight, instead of seemingly sweeping around in a hook shape into enemy observation and back to where the mortars might be deployed.

Secondly, you'd think that with such aggressive recon, he'd have infantry in lorries able to advance farther into the confirmed clear parts of the map earlier. Drifter Man has been able to leg it with infantry all the way to North Ridge, and only now are Stafford's mounted troops approaching?

 

[Blady]

Yes, that would be my take on it too.

But the thing I don't understand is first of all why he's sending empty carriers north - if these are the carriers of a mortar group, you'd think that he'd have their carriers parked directly behind the mortars out of sight, instead of seemingly sweeping around in a hook shape into enemy observation and back to where the mortars might be deployed.

Secondly, you'd think that with such aggressive recon, he'd have infantry in lorries able to advance farther into the confirmed clear parts of the map earlier. Drifter Man has been able to leg it with infantry all the way to North Ridge, and only now are Stafford's mounted troops approaching?

Yeah, I was thinking something similar. My only guess is that he was afraid of air power, or fast moving TD's / armoured cars.

 

[Drifter Man]

This always irked me. How the hell are you able to positively identify everything inside the truck? It's an engine limitation to do with the fact the HT is positively identified, and thus everything in it. But really, your men should only see that the truck is loaded with a few people at most (depending on vantage point) and if it's towing anything. But to determine exactly what is in the HT should be a bit more difficult really....

I completely agree. At this distance (1000 m), the scouts, without binoculars, should see a halftrack and a truck, that's all.
And I was able to tell even more - without getting into details, I am confident that the truck was added to the formation as Single Vehicle, i.e. it is not an organic transport of the Rifle Platoon (lorried). Why would Stafford want to pay 43 points for a truck instead of 28 is a mystery to me - perhaps he will tell us one day.

I doubt he's re-deploying. I think it's his deployment. He probably send in his AFVs and scout cars in first to meet up with @Drifter Man's forces. If you look at the overview map, you see they're not meeting in the middle, they're meeting more to @Drifter Man 's side of the map. It explains the suicidal behavior of the scout cars, they are meant to tie up his forces, even if temporarily, to figure out what @Drifter Man is up to and slowing him down where possible.

Now that you guys have met up, he's starting to deploy infantry. He's likely not even aware that it's in view (or doesn't care), since it's the infantry spotting him, not the tanks. So my guess is that the british are using the reverse of the German tactic here. where the Germans are going infantry first, then armour, the British are going for an armoured thrust, followed up by infantry. That can be to either consolidate the territory covered by the armor, press the weak spots for advancement or to defend furiously where needed. Most likely a combination of all of these.

This is exactly my assessment - to the point that I have almost nothing to add. I don't think the bulk of his force is much farther than mine, because you can't have transports for everything and infantry can only go so fast on foot. But going forward, I expect him to reach the center of the map well ahead of me. In a StuG vs Cromwell engagement I am not eager to close distance.

 

[Drifter Man]

Yes, that would be my take on it too.

But the thing I don't understand is first of all why he's sending empty carriers north - if these are the carriers of a mortar group, you'd think that he'd have their carriers parked directly behind the mortars out of sight, instead of seemingly sweeping around in a hook shape into enemy observation and back to where the mortars might be deployed.

Secondly, you'd think that with such aggressive recon, he'd have infantry in lorries able to advance farther into the confirmed clear parts of the map earlier. Drifter Man has been able to leg it with infantry all the way to North Ridge, and only now are Stafford's mounted troops approaching?

It appears that these transports delivered something to the Halberg area, and once freed up, Stafford redirected them to do another job.
Note that North Ridge (in fact both ridges) is closer to my side than his. But yes, I expected infantry to be right on the heels of his armor, ready to support. They only seem to be coming now.

 

[Concord]

I've had a few large matches like this years ago.
One of the interesting things about this scale is that suddenly things that didn't matter much (or were never seen in smaller battles) are now important.
Like truck logistics (ferrying troops over multiple trips). Avoiding major traffic jams. Actual on-map artillery batteries. Battalion commanders. Big reserves. Fast vehicles moving ahead of the pack.
The list goes on.

 

[Bulletpoint]

And I was able to tell even more - without getting into details, I am confident that the truck was added to the formation as Single Vehicle, i.e. it is not an organic transport of the Rifle Platoon (lorried).

OK, I've been trying to figure out how you could determine this, but I'm not sure. Something about the uniform of the driver? The license plate?

 

[Drifter Man]

I've had a few large matches like this years ago.
One of the interesting things about this scale is that suddenly things that didn't matter much (or were never seen in smaller battles) are now important.
Like truck logistics (ferrying troops over multiple trips). Avoiding major traffic jams. Actual on-map artillery batteries. Battalion commanders. Big reserves. Fast vehicles moving ahead of the pack.
The list goes on.

I also like about it that a large game is not decided by a stroke of luck, or some minor engagement on the map that went well for one side.
You need to be good, consistently throughout the match. He who makes fewer mistakes, wins

 

[Drifter Man]

OK, I've been trying to figure out how you could determine this, but I'm not sure. Something about the uniform of the driver? The license plate?

You're close.
The first thing I saw was that the bus was full - 30 seats, 30 men. One driver and three rifle sections - wait, that's 31. So you split off a small team to fit them on board. But you can't split off one man. But then you only have 29 men on board...
Did he kick out the driver and let the troops drive instead? No, I would only see two unit icons above the bus, not three. The "crew" does not show, even if it has 10 men.
Then I noticed that neither of the two men in the cabin had those backpacks that the troops have* - this indicates they are both crew. And you get a truck with two men when you buy it as single vehicle, whereas you get it with only one driver when it is bought with the battalion. Otherwise it is the same truck, including the PIAT launcher with 5 rounds.
So, it is a truck with a two-man crew and 28 men from the rifle platoon. The remaining two probably ride with the HQ on the halftrack.
I may be wrong. Maybe there is something I missed. I just can't see why Stafford would pay the 15-point fee for a Single Vehicle when he can have it with the formation. If he did it throughout the force, he could have spent 200-300 points just on these fees...

*The platoon commander and the light mortar guy have no backpacks, either. And the radio man, obviously, who has a radio. But these are all riding on the halftrack.

 

[Drifter Man]

1300 hrs, Turn 10. I did not send the turn today - I came back late, and I want to be fit and rested when I manage a panzergrenadier regiment. I don't want to lose the only battle I am playing this year!

But here's a brief account of the events of this turn:

• The British rifle platoon continues on its way westwards, vanishing out of sight at the next bend. It should show up again in about a minute. The convoy of empty carriers resumes its journey north. Way back near the enemy setup zone I see an Universal Carrier moving across the field to the west, carrying what I think is a Company HQ and a Sniper Team.
• A third Typhoon dives from the sky, without a warning. It looks like half of the RAF is accidentally in this sector today. I get off lightly - no casualties, one halftrack (empty, on its way to pick an infantry team) is immobilized at Wynton. Most of the volley misses its mark and it seems the building shielded the vehicle and crew from the worst - notice the rounds deflected by the building in the picture below. I checked what ammo supply Typhoons have - enough for three passes. So the pair that attacked earlier should be on its way to base. Once again I will split squads, unload vehicles, and order everyone to seek cover.
• At North Ridge, 1st Platoon, 2nd Company recovers a PF30K from one of its casualties, plus I deliver one more weapon of the same type with a halftrack. Might come in handy if Stafford tries to run his armor into the woods again.
• At the center, a Cromwell is heard withdrawing as the smoke screen laid by the suicide Humber dissipates, and one of my assault guns (3rd Platoon HQ - he leads the two 105mm assault howitzers) moves in to cover 1st Platoon, 5th Company. As his parting shot, the Cromwell fires two rounds at a building where Stafford probably suspects an observation post. Interesting, I did not even consider this one... I check out the building but no, I already have a better position elsewhere.

 

[Bulletpoint]

A third Typhoon dives from the sky, without a warning. It looks like half of the RAF is accidentally in this sector today.

 

[Blady]

Nice! Is that an allied pamphlet dropped over Berlin / Germany? Or is it truly from some kind of internal opposition movement?

A rough translation for non-German speakers:

Where is the Luftwaffe?
That's the question asked again and again by our soldiers on the eastern front and in Italy. "The Luftwaffe is busy defending our home country" is what they keep saying.
But today...
American bombers fly over Berlin en masse. Today they were 5 times over our capitol. Of course people are now asking: "Where is the Luftwaffe?"
Ask Goring, Ask hitler!

 

[Bulletpoint]

Nice! Is that an allied pamphlet dropped over Berlin / Germany? Or is it truly from some kind of internal opposition movement?

A rough translation for non-German speakers:

It's apparently a US propaganda leaflet dropped by the Allies on the Germans. The clue is in one small mistranslation you made: It's not "our soldiers" but "your soldiers".

 

[Lethaface]

Another great DAR @Drifter Man!

Given the rather strict houserules around force selection I was surprised there to be any aircraft at all, given a meeting engagement.
With regards to the ability of AA to scare away planes, I know for a fact that it is modeled in CMx2 as I have seen it more than once in modern games. There is even a status on the plane 'evading' and after that it will usually evac and become available for call in again.
I don't have much experience with WW2 AA effectiveness. Based on what you guys say it isn't ;-)

 

[Bulletpoint]

I know for a fact that it is modeled in CMx2 as I have seen it more than once in modern games. There is even a status on the plane 'evading' and after that it will usually evac and become available for call in again.
I don't have much experience with WW2 AA effectiveness. Based on what you guys say it isn't ;-)

Could be that it's something they implemented in the modern games and forgot to include in the old ones? I've never seen the status of a WW2 plane to say "evading".

 

[Lethaface]

Could be that it's something they implemented in the modern games and forgot to include in the old ones? I've never seen the status of a WW2 plane to say "evading".

Could very well be. Although modern AA (even SHORAD) usually features automated radar tracking and aiming with very ROF and or guided missiles, which I would expect to be many times more effective compared to manually laid AA fire and tracking by the MK1 eyeball. So I guess chances would / should be much lower, if it would work in similar fashion.

 

[Bulletpoint]

Could very well be. Although modern AA (even SHORAD) usually features automated radar tracking and aiming with very ROF and or guided missiles, which I would expect to be many times more effective compared to manually laid AA fire and tracking by the MK1 eyeball. So I guess chances would / should be much lower, if it would work in similar fashion.

True, but then again, WW2 planes were much simpler too. I think there was good reason why all armies invested heavily in AA vehicles.

 

[Drifter Man]

I asked Göring before the battle.
Luftwaffe is too expensive. I could spare the 5000+ rarity points for a strafing Fw 190, but the cost - 259 points - I would never get the corresponding value from that.
It has four cannons like the Typhoon and enough ammo for 4 passes (plus probably more with MG only), but there is no way it can be 2.5x more valuable. Even the first pair of Typhoons did not "pay for itself" (meaning they caused less damage than they were worth), so how could I expect that from a Fw 190?

Another great DAR @Drifter Man!

Given the rather strict houserules around force selection I was surprised there to be any aircraft at all, given a meeting engagement.
With regards to the ability of AA to scare away planes, I know for a fact that it is modeled in CMx2 as I have seen it more than once in modern games. There is even a status on the plane 'evading' and after that it will usually evac and become available for call in again.
I don't have much experience with WW2 AA effectiveness. Based on what you guys say it isn't ;-)

Thanks!
I'm fine with the aircraft - the roar of the engines adds to the atmosphere I'd just prefer if Stafford used them during the battle rather just plotting an area target on Turn zero.

 

[Lethaface]

Thanks!
I'm fine with the aircraft - the roar of the engines adds to the atmosphere I'd just prefer if Stafford used them during the battle rather just plotting an area target on Turn zero.

They can bring a fun dynamic, but given the force selection criteria on typical forces and limits on TRPs etc I'd not expect strafing aircraft to be typically part of a meeting engagement. At the start or called in.
Not a big deal imo, and indeed they add to the atmosphere ;-).

 

[Bulletpoint]

Luftwaffe is too expensive. I could spare the 5000+ rarity points for a strafing Fw 190, but the cost - 259 points - I would never get the corresponding value from that.
It has four cannons like the Typhoon and enough ammo for 4 passes (plus probably more with MG only), but there is no way it can be 2.5x more valuable. Even the first pair of Typhoons did not "pay for itself" (meaning they caused less damage than they were worth), so how could I expect that from a Fw 190?

I know, the pricing for German airplanes is totally off. Wrote about it on the official forum years ago and got the usual cricket response.

It was not a question for you. Just thought that old propaganda leaflet was interesting.

 

[Drifter Man]

1301 hrs, Turn 11. With the smoke screen in place south of the road to Louvoy, 1st Platoon, 5th Company resumes its probe towards Louvoy. It comes quickly to a stop: The Humber LRC abandoned by its crew a few turns ago after the "duel" with my halftrack was "repopulated" with a new crew - a three-man infantry team. One of my men is hit, a Gunner, of course. I am moving in an assault howtizer, covered by a StuG, to open the way, but I wish I didn't have to use this caliber.

Speaking of StuGs, the third Typhoon finally sorts out his targeting priorities and picks the vehicle of no one else than the company commander. And this time there isn't a building in the way to save the day. The driver and loader are killed, the vehicle is immobilized, the commander and the gunner bail out in panic. Here's another reason to buy Panthers... they are Typhoon-proof. This StuG is in a position from which it can cover the road from Louvoy, so it will be at least partially useful once I get the commander back in. Also, I need to get him back in to reinstate C2 links with the platoons. This is a major loss - I feel I am short of armor and this is not going to help. And that guy in the air still has 160 rounds for another pass. And I bet a fourth Typhoon will arrive in 5 minutes...



But there is good news, too. My 150mm artillery found its mark very quickly and starts firing for effect in harass mode. I will soon be able to adjust its fire to support my advance south of Louvoy. Also, the dismounted Humber on Hill 36, whose crew went scouting on foot, is knocked out - either by 105mm or 150mm artillery, I can't tell for sure.