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UK in or out the EU

B

Bert Blitzkrieg

Guest
Although it is my personal conviction that the UK is better off inside the EU and the EU better off with the UK inside the EU, I wouldn't mind if the UK would vote to leave the EU.

Would clear up a lot. No more threats to leave. No more special treatment for the City, no more special rebate.
 
Yes I think the UK will be better of out of the EU shambles, we do need out identity back, not only that the UK are putting 55 million pounds a day into it, this makes me annoyed when the NHS Police and other important services are struggling to cope because of the Government cut backs, hopefully if there are more funds in our purse the Government will be able to invest more in the UK.......Talking Migrant .....No I will be here all day
 
I think every country would be better off the EU. every country would be better off the other unions (NAU, AU etc.) as well what are spread over the globe. One can work and live together without to give away one owns identity. Where that lead if one forces different folks into a "cage" is shown often in history. Let´s talk about Stalin, Hitler, Mao etc.!!! It will be always a dictatorship in one or another way.

Greetings :)
 
From a purely outside pundit with no links to Europe other than the being a tourist in the past and possibly again in the future, :D...

I think the UK staying a part of the EU is a good idea. Like it or not, the isles are heavily tied to the political and economic goings on in the continent. Being a part of the EU body or not is not going change that. Germany, France, Italy, if they suffer it's going to have a knock on effect to your own economy and political system one way or another. In the modern economy we are all interconnected compared to say 30 years ago.

Granted there will always be fears about losing ones identify amongst a regional government and you won't always agree with the decisions after being outvoted by other member states, but the UK is one of the major powers of Europe and does have sway. The fact that the EU President would actually work out a custom plan with PM David Cameron to begin with says a lot. Simply walking away would forfeit your ability to formerly raise and vote according to the UK's concerns about European bills. Save a few pounds sure, but you'll be relegated to being the country on the sidelines having a hissy fit whenever the EU Parliament votes on something that will affect your country directly or indirectly. Argue for a better deal, for sure, but stay a part of it and influence the debate from the inside.

Identity is very important for any nation of peoples and you may see yourselves as more separate from Europe than other countries on the continent itself, but geographically your little islands themselves aren't going anywhere. :)
 
I'm voting to leave.

Simple reason? Democracy and self determination. The EU is just about one of the most corrupt organisations on the planet, and we the British public get practically no say in the goings on over there. The leaders of the EU are assigned by committee, therefore giving us no way to vote for them. We don't even get to vote for who our representative to lead the EU is ...

There are arguments to stay, which mostly boil down to money and visa's. But in my opinion there is no price to the freedom of being able to vote for the people that create your laws and hold society together. The EU is heading for ever closer union and I find that very sinister indeed.

As an aside, even if I were pro-EU, the right vote would be to leave. The EU needs heavy reform, and if the second biggest contributor can't get any, then giving them a bloody nose by leaving would be the best way to wake them up.
 
The dismantling/reshaping of EU has allready started.There are lot of trends suggesting this.
IMO EU has served a part of its cause for a period (that was to bridge differences between nations that had a past of fighting with each other such as Germany and France) but it failed to achive its ultimate goal which was the creation of a continental superstate with one economy and a central political authority.
UK is trying to distant Îąitself from an institution which is falling apart.
Just think that few years ago there was a queue of countries waiting and pleading to enter EU, while today it's the exact opposite.
As in every decision leaving or staying in EU has its pros and cons.
What is for sure (@Ithikial wisely said so in his post) is that you can change everything except geography and that is what UK politicians need to have in mind.
 
Bert Blitzkrieg said:
Although it is my personal conviction that the UK is better off inside the EU and the EU better off with the UK inside the EU, I wouldn't mind if the UK would vote to leave the EU.

Would clear up a lot. No more threats to leave. No more special treatment for the City, no more special rebate.
Click to expand...
I reckon what the UK put into the EU, which is massive monies we are talking here, that will out weigh any rebates that we get, It would be better for the UK to govern it's self with out Brussels with there human rights schedule telling the UK what we can do or can't do
 
Harmes said:
The EU is just about one of the most corrupt organisations on the planet,
Click to expand...

Any proof of that? I would say that every African and South American country is worse.

Meat Grinder said:
Will this affect the British currency?
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Yes, it already has fallen against the euro. But that doesn't say it can't rise again or that this is a bad thing. Exporting to the EU will benefit, importing will be more expensive.

Hedgehog said:
I reckon what the UK put into the EU, which is massive monies we are talking here,
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According to Bloomberg: UK, Ireland and Belgium to suffer (economically) most from Brexit https://euobserver.com/tickers/132356


Almost everyone (at least from what I've seen, heard and read) has the opinion that economically the UK is better of inside the EU and the EU better of with the UK in it.
But a large portion of the discussion isn't about logics but about gut feeling.
 
To put it in perspective some data on money, the EU and the UK in the year 2014:
  • money spend by the EU in the UK: € 6,985 billion
  • that is 0,32% of the GNI of the UK
  • total contribution by the UK to the EU: € 11.342 billion
  • which is 0,52% of the GNI
Relatively it isn't that much, but it still is a large amount.

1 euro equals about 0,79 UK pound (and 1,10 US dollar).
 
Harmes said:
if the second biggest contributor can't get any, then giving them a bloody nose by leaving would be the best way to wake them up.
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Not true. Germany, France and Italy have a larger contribution. And the Netherlands has the largest contribution per capita (with Sweden 2nd, Germany 3rd and UK and Italy tie for 4th).
 
To make myself clear: I have a problem with the "wall" between the politicians who are the EU and the folks of the countries who have no real choice and voice in that matter. I have a problem with the dictatorship in general and have lived all my life in one or the other. If You compare the aims of t he EU with the Third Reich You will find there are not many differencces. I have a problem with the fact that every problem what a state or country has is getting worse. There is no growing together of people but only of economic. And that is exact what EU, AU, NAU and all the other "fine unions" are about: ECONOMIC. The single man/human don´t count in no way. What can easily be seen by article 2 and the annotation to that very article. One has to know that such annotations contrary to common use have the same "value" - they be on par with the actual article. In the annotations to article 2 is to read:

- killing of a person isn´t forbidden if:
...
c) a uproar or revolte/rebellion is to knock down

Further is to read that in times of war or even by immediate threat of war countries have the right to use the death penalty. Aren´t we just in a few wars? War on terror for example? War in Afghanistan? Whenever a war errupts and a country of the EU takes part it´s citizens stay under the threat of the death penalty. Can You imagine how that affects the right of demonstration and freedom of expression? And if I see that added to the not existent souvereignty of Germany I get real fear for all Germans. Other countries have at least that - still.

Greetings :)
 
Bert Blitzkrieg said:
Any proof of that? I would say that every African and South American country is worse.
Click to expand...

The main thrust of what I was saying is that we don't get to vote for the leaders of the EU, or even which of our countrymen are put forward for the committee to decide the next leader. That's mental.

The EU have never submitted their accounts for inspection, so we don't know where all the money we stick in goes.

But also: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26014387
 
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