Update from Battlefront on future of CM

A Canadian Cat

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#41
Nope, that was not what I meant.
OK, Sorry for the rant then. <sheepish> :D

After thinking about this for a while, I think it comes down to two things:

1: I find that their new games rarely address previous shortcomings.

"CMFB, cool, is the building targeting issue solved? No? Oh ok. Do branches still block solid AP shot? Yes? Oh, ok."

2: I find new features often seem a bit undercooked.

"CMRT, flamethrowers, cool! Do they set fire to things? No? But tank riders! Awesome! Do they sensibly drop off when they take fire and the tank is holding still? No? Oh, ok.."
Interesting thought process. Do you mind if I pass that on? I think that is insightful.

If I may, the tank riders was specifically added to support the Soviet's tactic of breaching lines with tank riders. For that to work the soldiers have to favour hangging on when taking some fire or even casulties. This is very different behaviour than guys that are just hitching a ride - who would probably fly off at the first sign of bullets near by.

Just in case you didn't already know that or other people are reading this who don't.

So in short, I end up feeling these are features I can live without. They are OK to have I guess, but not something that give me that feeling of "got to buy that". The result is that I end up not buying those new games - unfortunately! Because the basic gameplay is rock solid.

By the way, this is NOT a "Bash Battlefront" post. Just some musings about what keeps me, a very dedicated player, from investing more in the series.
Roger that.
 

Bulletpoint

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#45
Interesting thought process. Do you mind if I pass that on? I think that is insightful.
By all means feel free to pass it on, if you think my feedback could be useful to keep improving the game.

A Canadian Cat said:
If I may, the tank riders was specifically added to support the Soviet's tactic of breaching lines with tank riders. For that to work the soldiers have to favour hangging on when taking some fire or even casulties. This is very different behaviour than guys that are just hitching a ride - who would probably fly off at the first sign of bullets near by.
I'm no expert at Soviet doctrine, but I would really appreciate being given a bit more control of how the tank riders react to incoming fire. I think it would be sensible that troops would hang on to the tank as long as it moved faster than "SLOW", because then the commander's intent would be to make a breakthrough. But when the tank is going SLOW or stationary, the SOP should be to drop off when taking incoming fire, as I see it.

Me too! However, holding a rubber band between two cardboard units usually produced better LOS comprehension than CM has ever been able to come up with.
Quoted for truth :D
 

Titan

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#46
Eh, not impressed. Wake me up when they actually do something useful, like replacing their crappy decade old engine or eliminating action squares and shoddy spotting routines; "Derp I can't see a tank 5 feet in front of me derp." As it is now, their games aren't worth the money anymore imo. I feel sorry for the NZ taxpayers.
I just happen to be one of those tax payers
 

Gunner

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#47
Me too! However, holding a rubber band between two cardboard units usually produced better LOS comprehension than CM has ever been able to come up with.
The biggest things that CM has over the die cut Squad Leader game, what I consider the greatest cardboard game ever, is Fog Of War and you don't need to go to the bloody tome that was the rule book every other turn. :eek:
 

Badger73

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#50
<snipped>
But I still have those 10 dollars in my pocket that I'm hoping to give them as soon as they patch CM 4.0 to address the issue of artillery flushing out dug-in defenders.
@Bulletpoint - check your pockets then, my friend, and make sure you still have it ready. Can't wait to face you in a 4.0 tournament (or any other) match soon . . . :cool:
FYI from Battlefront forums today - http://community.battlefront.com/to...2018-look-ahead/?tab=comments#comment-1732369

Posted by Battlefront - 1230 US CT 2-Jan-18
Oh yes! The Engine 4 patch. That should be out fairly soon. Testers have indicated the running away problem is probably fixed so we're just making sure of it. I'd like to have the patch out much sooner than later.
Steve
 

Bulletpoint

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#51
@Bulletpoint - check your pockets then, my friend, and make sure you still have it ready. Can't wait to face you in a 4.0 tournament (or any other) match soon . . . :cool:
FYI from Battlefront forums today - http://community.battlefront.com/to...2018-look-ahead/?tab=comments#comment-1732369

Posted by Battlefront - 1230 US CT 2-Jan-18
Oh yes! The Engine 4 patch. That should be out fairly soon. Testers have indicated the running away problem is probably fixed so we're just making sure of it. I'd like to have the patch out much sooner than later.
Steve
Sounds great. Might even decide to splurge a bit and buy one of the other titles. Although what will I do when I don't have my hedgerows to hide in? I've played only CMBN for 5 years, not sure if I can deal with the agoraphobia..
 

Meat Grinder

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#52
I will, as I always do, buy all their CM product. What I would really like to see, and I am hoping they announce it this year, is a totally new game engine. I'm not talking the incremental improvements to the current CM2 engine they have been giving us via Updates, I'm talking about an entirely new, built from scratch, game engine (CM3) that gets rid of "action squares" and the sketchy LoS issues that we have all been putting up with for years now. Yes, I realize it would mean starting over and having to buy everything all over again, but I think it would be worth it.

Problem is, IIRC, BFC may have lost their lead coder sometime in 2017. Coding a new engine from scratch is no small undertaking.
 

A Canadian Cat

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#53
Problem is, IIRC, BFC may have lost their lead coder sometime in 2017.
Just to clarify they did *not* loose their lead software developer in 2017. Charles is still very much working away on new stuff. It was Phil who described him self as the "first second coder" that moved on to a very cool job doing AI research.

Coding a new engine from scratch is no small undertaking.
Indeed. I remember Steve saying that back when they did CMSF one of the 3rd party engines they evaluated was close to being good enough but not quite. I certainly hope that 10+ years later they would find a 3rd party that was up to the job / flexible enough to handle the additional work.
 

Bulletpoint

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#54
BattleFront seems to be focused more on keeping their business running on a slow burn year after year than to develop and improve the product (in a meaningful way). Most of the fan-base seems very conservative as well, and quite happy with the status quo. Sometimes it's wise to just appreciate what you have, but it's also nice to see things grow and improve.

The CM franchise is built on some brilliant ideas, and the tactical gameplay is second to none. But I also think it has so much unrealised potential. The lack of ambition and desire for improvement makes it seem like a textbook example of how a monopoly can stifle a market.

Honestly, while I agree with @Meat Grinder that I really would love to see a brand new engine that fulfills all our dreams, I would also be happy to see some smaller but important fixes:

  • A fixed graphical side of the engine, without necessarily throwing away the action square system. No more shadows flickering on and off on the edge of the screen, etc. Performance fixes to let your computer work smarter, not harder. I'm pretty confident there are some serious performance bottlenecks in there somewhere.

  • Change the graphics of the bocage slightly so it's clear where there's a gap and where there isn't. It took me years to start to recognise this, and I still make a mistake once in a while. I know I'm not the only one, and there's no good reason why this can't be fixed.

  • Small gameplay issues fixed. For example, just change the default stance for infantry in crops to kneeling so that the troops can see and return fire instead of a wheat field shutting down any infantry advance due to lack of LOS because troops are lying down in the crops and see nothing.

  • Change the glass in vehicle windows so it's not nearly bulletproof. Change the bocage hitpoints so that big shells and bombs can remove it instead of having bocage suspended like bridges across enormous craters. Little things like that require no massive code reworking, but just changing the material values already stored in the game.

  • Etc. etc. Not going full rant. Oh wait, I already did :)
 
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MOS:96B2P

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#58
What I would really like to see, and I am hoping they announce it this year, is a totally new game engine. I'm not talking the incremental improvements to the current CM2 engine they have been giving us via Updates, I'm talking about an entirely new, built from scratch, game engine (CM3)
I wonder (worry) what the setting of the first CM3 game would be? I really would not be to excited about starting over in the hedgerows and working through all the CM2 game settings again. Maybe they could continued to work back in time with CM3 and the early war games were released as CM3. A CM3 Africa Corps or CM3 Kursk. I would be more interested in covering new time periods/settings with CM3.
 

Zinzan

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#60
I don't have any ax to grind with Battlefront, I wish them all the best. The game is great, despite the many small issues. But I still have those 10 dollars in my pocket that I'm hoping to give them as soon as they patch CM 4.0 to address the issue of artillery flushing out dug-in defenders.
Have you seen the latest BF update, I linked it somewhere on here as a public service. :cool: (Yeah he did it 'cos he's a BIG HEAD who likes to show of really :eek:)

As an aside:
Not that bothered by arty bug, but then I'm gaining from it in a couple of PBeM games right now :shocknaz: