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CM Cold War surprised me

Nemesis

FGM Company Sergeant Major
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I only played a couple battles against the AI but........US tanks really struggle vs the Soviets.

I fought on the NTC which is a huge, wide open map. Lots of shooting and missing. The Soviets and US forces traded T-64 for M60A1 at a 1 to 1 ratio.

I was surprised at this. I would have thought the US forces would have an decent edge vs the Soviets.

Nonetheless, this game is going to be cool.
 

Blady

FGM Company Sergeant Major
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I haven't bought it myself yet. I've my hands full with F&R for now, but will get it later I think.

I only played a couple battles against the AI but........US tanks really struggle vs the Soviets.

I fought on the NTC which is a huge, wide open map. Lots of shooting and missing. The Soviets and US forces traded T-64 for M60A1 at a 1 to 1 ratio.

I was surprised at this. I would have thought the US forces would have an decent edge vs the Soviets.

Nonetheless, this game is going to be cool.
I think this was mentioned a few times on BFC forums. The US forces at this time (especially 1979) were NOT up to par with the Russians. It was mentioned it would be quite a different feel then the all-mightily US forces you've come to gotten used to in CMSF2/CMBS.
 

Gnarly

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There are a lot of interesting discussions around the US vs Russkie capabilities (and their evolution) over the CM CW timeframe over in the AAR on the BF forums.
 

holoween

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M60 vs T64 is sherman vs panther all over again ;) but to be real while the T-tanks are tougher all tanks are quite capable of killing each other.

My biggest surprise was more just how blind all tanks feel compared to ww2 and im not sure if they simply spot worse or its a result of bigger maps and longer sightlines.
 

Abbasid111

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Very different US Army in 79-82.
Still reeling from the after effects of Nam in 79 and with equipment that was just barely on par with the Russians in many cases
Definitely not the power house of CMSF2 or CMBS!
 

Nemesis

FGM Company Sergeant Major
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The 1973 Yom Kippur War showed that western tanks were still better designs than Soviet tanks. That war was kept much closer than it should have been by the Israelis largely failing to incorporate/respect ATGMs and IR searchlight technologies. Had the Israelis not made bad decisions in these areas, that war would arguably have been more lopsided.

So I (personally) think that they did not get the historical balance quite right. But having said that.....that will make this a BETTER game.
 

Nemesis

FGM Company Sergeant Major
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M60 vs T64 is sherman vs panther all over again ;) but to be real while the T-tanks are tougher all tanks are quite capable of killing each other.

My biggest surprise was more just how blind all tanks feel compared to ww2 and im not sure if they simply spot worse or its a result of bigger maps and longer sightlines.
While it was only 1 game vs the AI.......I also saw a lot of Veteran tank crews missing shots. The accuracy of these tanks is in the middle of WW2 and CMBS. And as you say.....spotting and target acquisition were a lot slower.
 

Blady

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The 1973 Yom Kippur War showed that western tanks were still better designs than Soviet tanks. That war was kept much closer than it should have been by the Israelis largely failing to incorporate/respect ATGMs and IR searchlight technologies. Had the Israelis not made bad decisions in these areas, that war would arguably have been more lopsided.

So I (personally) think that they did not get the historical balance quite right. But having said that.....that will make this a BETTER game.
Yom kippur was not against Russian home-grade tanks and army level training. Russians did not export their best tanks (far from it) and more importantly did not export their training levels nor doctrine.

IMO that is like comparing rifles based on how well a bunch of kids shoot with the toy store versions. ;)
 

Titan

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If they introduced the Brits with there Cheiftans tanks and the Germans with the Leopard 1 tanks...the nato will have the edge
 

Zeke_21

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The 70's was a bad time for the US Military. There were a lot of issues. I noticed the accuracy of my shots from my M-60s in the game left much to be desired. I attributed that to my gunners being "stoned"...drugs use was pretty rampant at the time. It wasn't until Reagan took office and a crash on the Nimitz, where a subsequent autopsy revealed that many of the deck crew killed had drugs in their system, that the US military really cracked down.

I read a story by the Israelis regarding the M-60. If given a choice tankers would choose a Chieftain unit to serve in. Apparently the Chieftain had an electrical system that moved the turret. The M-60 used a hydraulic system that used flammable fluid that would spray and ignite inside the tank when hit. If true that doesn't sound very pleasant.
 
The 70's was a bad time for the US Military. There were a lot of issues. I noticed the accuracy of my shots from my M-60s in the game left much to be desired. I attributed that to my gunners being "stoned"...drugs use was pretty rampant at the time. It wasn't until Reagan took office and a crash on the Nimitz, where a subsequent autopsy revealed that many of the deck crew killed had drugs in their system, that the US military really cracked down.

I read a story by the Israelis regarding the M-60. If given a choice tankers would choose a Chieftain unit to serve in. Apparently the Chieftain had an electrical system that moved the turret. The M-60 used a hydraulic system that used flammable fluid that would spray and ignite inside the tank when hit. If true that doesn't sound very pleasant.
You mean Centurions? ... Israelis never used the Chieftain. ;)
 

SlySniper

FGM Regimental Sergeant Major
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In 1973, they would have been facing T62's not T64's which is a pretty big factor also. Let alone as mentioned.
Being used by ill trained personnel against the Israeli army was very well trained.


So set up a situation like that in the game and I am sure you will see the one sided battle you think you should be seeing.
 

SlySniper

FGM Regimental Sergeant Major
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OK, I just ran two battles. The set up was this
6 - M60 A1's vs 13-T64 A's ( the earliest I could get in both kits)

The Americans are vet with +1 Leadership, The Russians Are green with no modifications.

I picked a map that was German countryside and it turned into a knife fight at close range.
Lost 3 M60's to 12 T64's

Second Battle was a desert map, more long range duel but had to search and find the buggers.

lost No M60's to 9 T64 losses.

But I Bet you I can switch things up and get Russian's to look to be the most powerful force.

As had been mentioned many times. This is one of the most evenly matched period of times as to equipment.

Much more is being determined by those fighting and the tactics, than just the equipment.

The wars with Israel back at that time frame are a big example of that in many ways.


Dont start judging the game just because you are swapping one for one in some battles, it has nothing to do with did they get the design right or not.
 
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