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Coronavirus

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Well that's totally crap. Look around people are sick people have died and are still ding. There is no need to believe the main stream media just talk to people. Better yet believe your public health doctors they are their to protect you.
There is is no jump on the curve on the numbers of deaths per year. Nothing worth mentioning. Those health officials you refer to recomend lockdowns that causes people to go out of business, and kill themselves.
Lockdowns have caused more harm than this flu strain could ever have done. So no I won´t trust them.
 
There is is no jump on the curve on the numbers of deaths per year. Nothing worth mentioning. Those health officials you refer to recomend lockdowns that causes people to go out of business, and kill themselves.
Lockdowns have caused more harm than this flu strain could ever have done. So no I won´t trust them.
If there is no jump on the numbers of deaths per year, than people aren't killing themselves either :)
 
Good try Lethaface
But there are many out there who cant or refuse to be persuaded by troubling things like data and science.
They can't be persuaded by things that don't contribute to their fact system
Indeed, unfortunately. At least gave it a shot ;-).

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Also unfortunately the numbers here are going up hard again too.

Personally I'm not that afraid of the virus either, but then again I don't have any wish to catch it because small chances are still chances. But more importantly I do like to see my parents on a regular basis and while they are in good health, they are around 65 and I don't want to risk infecting them. So I try to keep my distance from people in the supermarket, don't go to parties/bars with too many people inside, etc.
I have been going to terraces / dining with friends a couple of times since those reopened in July. Football season has also started up again :)

I am affected by the measures since I have been working almost exclusively from home since March, and a less social activities. While working from home has both pro's and con's, I do wish things go back to normal sooner rather than later. But for that the pandemic will need to be crushed. And I'm not scared that 'they' are using this to make me a slave of this system, wear a mask so I won't talk to other people, bla bla bla. We're not even wearing masks here, plus if those measures are supposed to stop people communicating about 'what's happening' it doesn't seem to be very effective :D. But people going to explain things however they want to explain things.

One friend of me age 38 passed away in April (something with his blood + corona), I'm quite sure he wouldn't have died if he wouldn't have gotten corona on top of the other thing. At least that's what the doctors treating him told his family.
It surely made some people in that friend group more aware that this thing is not a joke.
 
It's not a joke. It's not a hoax. As has been previously mentioned it is a virus that has a propensity for killing people that have existing conditions. The CDC pointed out that slightly over 80% of the people that have died from it had on average 2.6 pre-existing "co-morbidities" that accelerated or compounded the situation.

My question is this. If we know this, why don't we just have high-risk people isolate themselves? Everyone else can be exposed, deal with it, and move on.
 
If there is no jump on the numbers of deaths per year, than people aren't killing themselves either :)
Not on a pandemic scale. But I could also add that countries under lockdown are seing increase in substance abuse, Alcohol, drugs, etc. Also domestic disputes, depressions, and ultimately, as I said earlier, suicide.
In my opinion we have not yet seen the full effect of the billions of dollars squandered and lost. God knows whats thats gona have in store for some people, particulary those with low incomes. Thousands have already lost their jobs.
Is it really worth it?
 
As for it being all too real, I can say I know of its impact since I had the virus in feb.

I did not know I had it, but none the less I did. I am pretty Healthy in general and this thing screwed me up for over a month and a half.

Did I feel like I was at risk of dyeing, not really. but I did exspearenced the shortness of breath and some of the other weird stuff., so who knows how close I was to death,

I could not worry about what I did not know.

But I do believe it might have long term effects on people also, so don't go out and get it because its just not a big thing.

For me, one of the long term effects is it has impacted some hearing loss that likely is permanent.


Now as for governments and all the closers and restrictions, is it overkill. I think we all know deep down inside it is, and in the long run has it really worked, Not at all, all it did was slow it down as to the speed of the spread.

But it will continue to spread and people are tired of trying to live by the restrictions that don't make sense. Society cannot just stop functioning because of this, people should have agency as to how they want to protect themselves from it and governments should back off on restrictions other than the most logical, least restrictive.

Like requiring face mask does not stop someone from making a living and functioning normally day to day (so there should be no issue in requiring it)- but telling someone they cannot operate their business is stepping above the level of where this should be taken to.

So I am in agreeance with anyone that thinks that these governmental enforced shut downs were wrong or not logical - we will all pay more for those type of actions than we will for the impact covid itself is having on us.
 
It's not a joke. It's not a hoax.
Yeah and to be honest it's kinda ridiculous to be still discussing that. It's like talking to a flat earther or someone that thinks the moon landings were fake or that chemtrails are real. Frustrating and a waste of time. I wouldn't say anything at all except that letting dumb ideas wonder around freely is actually dangerous.

My question is this. If we know this, why don't we just have high-risk people isolate themselves? Everyone else can be exposed, deal with it, and move on.
Yeah we could do more of that for sure. In Ontario the long term care and retirement homes *are* doing a lot more of that. It is the main reason our death rate has not spiked again. But.... someone has to be taking care of the high-risk people which means they need stay isolated as well. The other factor is while the death rate for younger people is not too scary, there are a bunch of people that survived that seem to be facing long term problems and possibly permanent damage. The extent of that is still not really fully understood but I don't think that letting it run its course is a wonderful idea.

Honestly if people would wear their masks and support healthcare workers keep the high risk people safe and just listen to the public health officials we could still go out to restaurants and go shopping - I realize it would not be normal levels but it would be a lot easier to deal with some restrictions than total isolation. Speaking of Ontario here the only reason we are having a rise in cases is because people ignored that advice and started partying in large groups going to bars and restaurants without following the guidelines. I feel like say "you fucking ass-holes - things had opened up enough to feel not so isolated and you fucked that up for the rest of us". Jerks.
 
It's not a joke. It's not a hoax. As has been previously mentioned it is a virus that has a propensity for killing people that have existing conditions. The CDC pointed out that slightly over 80% of the people that have died from it had on average 2.6 pre-existing "co-morbidities" that accelerated or compounded the situation.

My question is this. If we know this, why don't we just have high-risk people isolate themselves? Everyone else can be exposed, deal with it, and move on.
Not that I'm in the know, as I'm not taking the decisions around where I live let alone globally.

I actually think many high-risk people are already isolating themselves. But not everyone does or can. Many governments do sort of 'foster' the people in various ways and levels, depending per country.

Guess that many governing bodies want to prevent a massive panic, which will screw the economy even harder. If people don't go working at the supermarket/hospital, etc, that's when you have a *REAL* big problem. So they take measures to limit the spreading, which in turn keeps most of the people sort of calm enough to still do most of the jobs that are required to keep us fed, healthy, etc.
 
Not on a pandemic scale. But I could also add that countries under lockdown are seing increase in substance abuse, Alcohol, drugs, etc. Also domestic disputes, depressions, and ultimately, as I said earlier, suicide.
In my opinion we have not yet seen the full effect of the billions of dollars squandered and lost. God knows whats thats gona have in store for some people, particulary those with low incomes. Thousands have already lost their jobs.
Is it really worth it?
I don't doubt that a long and full lockdown has other affects like some of the things you say. Now whether 'it' is really worth it, depends on which measures you are exactly talking about. Not every county does the same and not every country has the same social system and or vast parts of the population unemployed.
 
As for it being all too real, I can say I know of its impact since I had the virus in feb.

I did not know I had it, but none the less I did. I am pretty Healthy in general and this thing screwed me up for over a month and a half.

Did I feel like I was at risk of dyeing, not really. but I did exspearenced the shortness of breath and some of the other weird stuff., so who knows how close I was to death,

I could not worry about what I did not know.

But I do believe it might have long term effects on people also, so don't go out and get it because its just not a big thing.

For me, one of the long term effects is it has impacted some hearing loss that likely is permanent.


Now as for governments and all the closers and restrictions, is it overkill. I think we all know deep down inside it is, and in the long run has it really worked, Not at all, all it did was slow it down as to the speed of the spread.

But it will continue to spread and people are tired of trying to live by the restrictions that don't make sense. Society cannot just stop functioning because of this, people should have agency as to how they want to protect themselves from it and governments should back off on restrictions other than the most logical, least restrictive.

Like requiring face mask does not stop someone from making a living and functioning normally day to day (so there should be no issue in requiring it)- but telling someone they cannot operate their business is stepping above the level of where this should be taken to.

So I am in agreeance with anyone that thinks that these governmental enforced shut downs were wrong or not logical - we will all pay more for those type of actions than we will for the impact covid itself is having on us.

That's the more interesting discussion, I think.

One thing I thought was funny is that in my 'friend group', or more specifically an app group, there has been quite some discussion about this. At the start of the pandemic some where asking for a total lockdown, with tanks etc :D
Personally I didn't think that was a particular wise idea, as it will really melt the economy and from there many other stuff.
Now I don't think anyone in that group still wants a total lockdown, some are even questioning whether there is much merit in certain restrictions. The same who asked for the tanks :ROFLMAO:

An analogy:
If I borrow someone else's car, the oil lamp goes on. It is orange, but I don't know for sure what this means:

* Is it just a preprogrammed light to change the oil every 10000km?
* Is it coupled to a sensor indicating that oil is getting low, but not yet in danger of effecting smooth running of the engine.
* Does it mean the oil in the engine is actually low and parts of the engine might not be lubricated sufficiently?

There is no manual and you don't have someone you can call. Do you A) continue driving till next pumpstation. B) Stop and walk to the next pumpstation, which will mean you miss your very important appoint?

In hindsight it's always easy to know what is the right decision. One might know that a real problem will always have a red light. Some will not even notice. Some will stop the car and not continue to drive nor knowing what even is wrong. There are three possible explanations, but you only have two choices.

Maybe the analogy is too simple for something complex like this pandemic. But I think it is difficult to say weather some measures have been too strict versus too lean. Personally I have the idea that a full lockdown and closure of many business might not be the right way to go forward. Enforcing 1.5m distance rule should be a priority though, because our healthcare WILL probably collapse if the second wave outpases the first wave. There then comes the difficulty: whether people oblige or not. So they are not obliging, what can you do as a governing body?
Sometimes you have to take a decision to do A or B, without perfect information. If you go changing your mind every too often, people will also become less cooperative with measures. Etc.
I don't know whether the measures are the right ones. I'm glad we didn't have a full total lockdown here. I hope most shops etc stay open. I will try to at least follow the guidelines to not be someone spreading the thing among others. I hope enough people will be sensible and do the same so we can go evaluating what works and what doesn't in a controlled fashion, while we're not in danger of collapsing our healthcare system.

Imo there were some countries who went quite far with lockdowns, or who continued certain measures for longer than seemed really necessary. But also countries that were late with measures, causing unnecessary spreading and consequences.
I hope soon 'they' can go evaluating who was right and who was wrong, because that will mean the end is on the horizon. Until that time I try to make the best out of it.
 
Something connected to this, imo, is how much our societies invest in the extension of lives. Here, people which are 85 probably get surgery/etc of 100+k to live another couple of years. In other parts of the world nobody get's such treatments even if they're 8 years old. There might be parts of the world where corona isn't the worst of things that is happening. What I do know is that rather many people with corona here in NL end up in hospital. @Runround something I don't understand, is what in your views should be done with regards to people requiring hospitalization. For example the hospitals around Amsterdam, Haarlem and other cities are getting so much corona patients that they have to transfer them to other hospitals, to make sure the regular healthcare isn't impacted.
What should those hospitals though? Tell those people covid-19 is just a flu strain? (it isn't it's a corona strain). Just let everybody in the hospital get it? Or don't allow anyone with Covid-19 to the hospital?
 
Whatever your political bent it's not a good thing for the President to be sick with COVID. I anticipate the Chinese to start some aggression somewhere.. I love the fact they are deriding the man, even though they let the virus out of their country to begin with. Odd they would stop internal travel but let international flights leave Wuhan to infect the world.
 
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Whatever your political bent it's not a good thing for the President to be sick with COVID. I anticipate the Chinese to start some aggression somewhere..

Well it's not like they were holding back while he was in good health. China doesn't seem scared of the US any longer.
 
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I must say that I've started to change my mind about the entire corona situation. In the beginning, I supported strong lockdowns to get the disease under control, but now that we had more experience with it and found out that it's not that dangerous, I've become more critical of keeping society in a kind of permanent paranoia, with face masks and restrictions on nightlife, gatherings, and events.

We have to realise that all this comes at a massive cost, not just in terms of money but also in lost moments of life, for lack of a better term. What price do we put on cancelled weddings, festivals, parties, or just seeing other people's facial expressions? What's the cost of maintaining a fear based society because of a virus that is not that dangerous?

"The number of people seeking help from Alcohol Change UK for problem drinking is soaring. While 4,089 sought advice from the “get help now” section of its website between 23 March and 30 April last year, it had 20,067 visits in the same period this year."



And what happened to "flattening the curve" so our health systems wouldnt get overloaded while we built up herd immunity? Nowadays the mantra seems to be that we won't accept any covid-cases at all, we don't want herd immunity, and we are willing to pay any price to keep the virus down.

I think the real reason for this policy shift is not medical but political. If a politician is seen as lenient, the responsibility for even one covid death is put on his or her table. Whereas the cost of maintaining lockdown is borne by all of society and is not seen as the responsibility of political leaders.
 
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I agree.

In the U.S. everything is political. I blame it on ignorant citizens unduly and heavily influenced by social media and a media industry segment that feels their responsibility is to shape the news, not report it. I really resent the media presuming that I am too stupid to read objective reporting and draw my own conclusions. I think it is a sad commentary on US society that people are actually celebrating a President catching a disease and actually wishing he would die. I don't recall anyone ever wishing JFK or RFK to get shot and then openly celebrating their demise, but I was pretty young when that happened.

As I have mentioned before, your own safety is your responsibility, not Trump's, not Bidens, YOURS and yours alone. I see thousands of people every day going about the business of life, almost all wearing a mask and most at least trying to social distance. I keep hearing that Trump hasn't done enough, but short of putting armed troops on every block and threatening to shoot anyone that does not stay indoors, as they did in China, he and the Federal government have done a lot more than is being reported. Go back in this thread and use the link to see just how much the Federal government has done.

Some people will interpret this as an endorsement of the President. It is not. He has earned his fair share of vitriol, but to wish the man dead, please....
 
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