DAR CMFI "Beyond the Belice" Kraut vs Jobu88

Kraut · Apr 15, 2020

10:08 a.m. (8 minutes since last update)

About one minute ago the sharpshooter from the Scout Team has shot the 8st member of the enemy Rifle Squad.
New enemy vehicle sound contacts have emerged in the East sector. My halftracks are still in reserve and hopefully hidden for the enemy.
1st Platoon HQ has called mortar fire mission at the position of an enemy rifle squad and the last known position of the enemy light mortar team.

The Scouts Team / A Company Sharpshooter has shoot one of the survivors of the enemy Rifle Squad at 300m near to the building.

(with Veins Base Marker mod)

The antitank Team 2nd Section / 2nd Platoon is sneaking into the 1st floor as a reaction to the new vehicle sound contacts. (maybe the target armor arc is too small?)
The B Team of the 2nd Section is ordered to to move behind the house for safety reasons. (enemy vehicle will maybe shoot at this house)

MOS:96B2P · Apr 15, 2020

It will be interesting to see the kill stats for that sniper after the battle.

Veins base marker mod for casualties is one of my favorite must have mods.

Kraut · Apr 15, 2020

MOS:96B2P said:
It will be interesting to see the kill stats for that sniper after the battle.

Veins base marker mod for casualties is one of my favorite must have mods.

This is a perfect scenario for my sharpshooters. The Italians lack binoculars (Rifle Squad are without binoculars) and also lack scoped rifles, which helps my sharpshooters to stay unspotted and makes counter-sniper for Jobu88 difficult.

10:09 a.m.
The Bazooka Team fires at the enemy tankette (distance 130m)

Unfortunately 10 meters too short

The Tankette retreats and fires at the Bazooka Team. No casualties on both sides. Tankette is now out of sight.

10:11 a.m.
The executive officer of the 1st Platoon / A Company got hit by enemy MG fire. The mortar fire mission has missed their designated area and the fire mission is ordered to adjust towards the enemy MG Team.

M3A1 Scout car opens fire with their mighty M2 heavy Machine Gun at enemy MG Team located in a Building. This will help the retreat of 1st Platoon HQ which has order to crawl back into safety.

Kraut · Apr 18, 2020

10:17 a.m. (six minutes later since last update)

In the western sector: 1st Platoon (-) / B Company (-) has made great progress moving north. The movement is supported by a halftrack which provides firepower if necessary. The enemy is occupying a small house in the northeast and a firefight breaks out. Two enemy soldiers are hit and one member of the 2nd section has been lightly wounded. Firesuperiority is gained.

An AS 42 (AA) relocates towards the western sector. This vehicle has a mounted antiaircraft gun and can be very dangerous not only to my infantry, but also against my halftracks (can penetrate the halftrack)

Situation overview

Enemy Tankette appears again in the East sector and the Medium MG Team opened fire and hit with much luck involved the commander.

MOS:96B2P · Apr 18, 2020

Cool. Always interesting to see the small Italian vehicles in CMFI.

Kraut · Apr 19, 2020

A short reflection on my fire support mission:
I weighed up the two possibilities to use my mortar team: via fire support mission or direct fire and I chose the safer variant.
Until my mortar team had no more mortar shell left I had ordered two fire support mission. In both cases the shells landed way of their designated targets. I can not confirm even a single casualty inflicted. I think that fire mission are quite well implemented and also in some kind of realistic.

The first mission had been against two spotted targets, an enemy mortar team and rifle squad close to each other short behind a hilltop.
After the spotting rounds (which had been way of) the spotter/caller (1st Platoon HQ) was not be able to correct the fire towards the target. The mortar rounds landed after accomplishing the spotting procedure at the wrong place. Shortly later an enemy MG team opened fire at my 1st Platoon HQ (spotter) and inflicted one casualty and high suppression. I then gave the order to adjust the fire towards the enemy MG Team. Also these mission failed to hit the designated area. Maybe this is a good representation about how accurate a spotter can be while under fire and taking casualties.
I am unhappy with the unsatisfying result, but at the same time I am satisfied how realistic the fire support Mission has been.
Does the forward observer would have had better result (accuracy), or is it only the shorter time difference to call the fire support mission

MOS:96B2P · Apr 19, 2020

Kraut said:
Does the forward observer would have had better result (accuracy), or is it only the shorter time difference to call the fire support mission

I did the below test a few years back to find if there was a difference in calling for fire from a command vehicle vs an RTO on foot vs different levels in the chain of command. But it also helps to show generic call times between the different elements that have call privileges. All things being equal the fastest call time is generally an Elite FO using a TRP. Or in a modern title an Elite FO in a command vehicle using a TRP. The "follow up" section below breaks it down by experience level. Experience influences call time and accuracy. However accuracy is also effected by many other things such as suppression during the spotting phase. The table below did not "paste" correctly into the forum and I can't seem to fix it. Hopefully the information is still understandable.

In CM Battle for Normandy v3.11 Engine 3 I had the following teams request fire support from the same 105mm howitzer battery both in and out of the command track. All teams had the same soft factors, Experience: veteran / Motivation: normal / Leadership 0 / Fitness: fit. The following are the results.

Back Pack Radio SPW 251/3

German Bn. HQ 14 minutes 14 minutes

German Co. HQ 14 minutes 14 minutes

German Plt. HQ 14 minutes 14 minutes

German FO 9 minutes 9 minutes

In CM Black Sea v1.00 Engine 3 I had the following teams request fire support from the same 105mm howitzer battery both in and out of the command track. All teams had the same soft factors, Experience: veteran / Motivation: normal / Leadership 0 / Fitness: fit. The following are the results.

Radio /PDA Stryker Cmd. Vehicle

US BN. HQ 10 minutes 9 minutes

US Co. HQ 10 minutes 9 minutes

US Plt. HQ 10 minutes 9 minutes

US FO 6 minutes 5 minutes

It would appear there is no advantage to using command vehicles in CMBN. However there is a small advantage to using them in CMBS. Different level HQ units in both games appear to have the same call times however Forward Observers are quicker.

Follow up: In CM Battle for Normandy v3.11 Engine 3, I had US Platoon HQ teams request fire support from the same 105mm howitzer battery. All teams had the same soft factors with the exception of experience. Motivation: normal / Leadership 0 / Fitness: fit. The results:

Elite 13 minutes / Crack 13 minutes / Veteran 13 minutes / Regular 13 minutes / Green 15 minutes / Conscript 18 minutes

The difference in call times are rounded. This is why Elite and Regular appear to have the exact same call times on the support panel in the UI.

Kraut · Apr 20, 2020

10:18 a.m. (1 minute later)
The enemy AS.42 (AA) has been destroyed while trying to relocate to the northwest by the M3A1 Scout car with their mighty M2 heavy Machine Gun.
I assume that if the 1st Platoon (-) B Company (-) would not have advanced in the northwest sector, Jobu88 would not have taken the risk to move the AS.42 (AA) in an ermengency respond through the open. The AS.42 (AA) has been extremely dangerous especially versus my halftracks. I feel relieved that this dangerous threat is neutralized.

---------------------------------------------------------
Allied casualty summary:
3 casualties due to 45mm light mortar fire.
1 casualty due MG fire
1 light wounded due to 45mm light mortar fire
1 light wounded due infantry fire fight
Axis casualty summary:
2 casualties inflicted to the enemy Recon Team.
8 casualties inflicted to an enemy Rifle Squad
3 casualties inflected to enemy infantry inside the house in the northwest
1 casualty personal AS.42 (AA) and the vehicle is destroyed
1 casualty commander tankette
unknown number due mortar fire mission
---------------------------------------------------------

Kraut · Apr 24, 2020

10:22 a.m. (four minutes later since last update)

The building has been captured and the enemy rifle squad has been neutralized.

This is my plan for the remaining 13 minutes. I will try to get control over the complete western sector, which is one of the victory objectives. Also I will try to hold the eastern sector, so that the Italians will not control the sector. If this succeeds it will result in a Allied victory.

Bulletpoint · Apr 26, 2020

Kraut said:
After the spotting rounds (which had been way of) the spotter/caller (1st Platoon HQ) was not be able to correct the fire towards the target. The mortar rounds landed after accomplishing the spotting procedure at the wrong place.

Kraut said:
I then gave the order to adjust the fire towards the enemy MG Team. Also these mission failed to hit the designated area. Maybe this is a good representation about how accurate a spotter can be while under fire and taking casualties.

It's not about spotter experience, casualties, or suppression. You had a "bad" fire mission because your spotter did not see the fall of the spotting rounds due to bad LOS to the target area. When a bad fire mission starts, it does not help to try to correct or adjust the target.

Kraut · May 1, 2020

10:28 a.m. (6 minutes later)

Kraut · May 2, 2020

The battle ended with a U.S. Army tactical victory. I would like to thank @jobu88 for this interesting match and for respecting our gentlemen agreement regarding this DAR.

"Beyond the Belice" is my most liked scenario. I can highly recommend it for players who like a slow gameplay with no need for any rush. Interesting is that the victory locations are each half of the map, which improves this special kind of meeting engagement and slow development of the battle. Also I find it interesting to play or play against the Italians. It is a different experience which enriches the gameplay in my opinion much.