FUSION OF CM and PC/PG...

Sempai said:
warbull: Welcome again, mate! It´s nice to meet someone who has at least rough spoken the same intention for combining games to a new adventure/experience for the gamers world. I know it´s a package to develop such things. If You would be interested we could change our thoughts and ideas. For me two things are important for let working the whole thing. 1.) It has to be so simple as possible. 2.) All vital positions have to be exchangeable.

Let me tell You an example! I made good experiences with from OBSERVER/TM given passwords. So one should give a master password (maybe even master paswords) for each side. If one falls out another guy is able to overtake the command. After the finished battle a new password is given and so the "intelligence" by backed out players is minimal. Further TM/OBSERVER has the opportunity to get into games if some discussion/trouble is to clarify etc.

So far for a first impression. Please let me know if You´re interested in an interchange of ideas!

Greetings :)
Click to expand...


Before the start of the HPS campaign is necessary to convert all OOB in CM units, I started to do so for a battle in the Minsk 44 campaign, is not much difficult this phase.
Then the player play normally the HPS campaign PBEM, with the "manual defensive fire" on. All the strategic battle issues are the ones of the game engine.
There is the "Assault phase" and at this point the battle will be transposed on CM by the GM with some rule (I can share with the interested my note that are a "start" to make rules).
The 2 opponents at this point play on CM normally, when the battle end the casualties of both side will be edited directly in the HPS BPEM file, eventually with a new map position for advancing and retreating units.
When all the CM battles end the player will back on the HPS game and play it normally until a new "Assault phase" incoming.

My suggest of course is to try an "experiment" with a very small clash, better on HPS Tobruk 41.
 
Hm, seems to be different from as PG works. I own PG-2 and there almost all You can overtake for CM. For example experience is shown in 5 levels (6 if You count conscript as a level), it´s turn based but has elements of tactic gaming (ambush, arty-fire over a few hexes, air strikes etc.). Further both have editors.

I thought it that way: 1.) PG map is chosen
2.) Army groups will placed (one unit gets a name who shows the over all type - f.e. 1st Amor Division or similar)
3.) tables will written so HIGH COMMAND and OBSERVER know exact of what the 1st Amor Division consists)
4.) HIGH COMMAND exchanges turns with the enemy´s HIGH COMMAND till first fight would start (f.e. 1st AD hits 20th Guard Rifles)
5.) info to OBSERVER - which units on which hex have met, hex terrain type, day time etc.
6.) because the single HIGH COMMANDS know only the exact tables of their own units they have to gamble what the enemy could have there - they decide which units take part on battle
7.) the choice must also been sent to OBSERVER
8.) two opponent commanders must been found who decide with which game (CM, PG, PC, TOAW etc.) they want the battle fight
9.) let us say they decide for CMx1 - so they do the purchase turn as known for common CM battles
10.) the battle take place and the result has to report to OBSERVER and HIGH COMMANDS
11.) losses, experience level up etc. has to fulfil in the tables

That is rough spoken how I imagine how it could work

Greetings :)

P.S.: I would be grateful if You would share Your rules and ideas with me. My adress You can find at the members registry here at FGM. And by the way - If possible I will help to test Your experiment if You want that.
 
Sempai

Of course need to know the mechanics of the PG / HPS game, I am close to send you a mail :)
 
Mail received. I want only make some suggestions - that should be no dressing down your effort. My english language skill isn´t that well I can always make me understandable in the right way. So if something sounds offending, please, apologize! It isn´t meant that way.

the flags concerning: - the idea with the 5 flags is nice but it would be a bit boring if the flags are always set in that way (could restrict the tactical approach)
- I would suggest the setting of the flags should decided from battle to battle if pre-made maps are used
- if quckbattling is used You can´t manipulate the flag positions (counts for CM - I don´t know how it is with TOAW)
- I think it would be better to set the flags following the landscape or important places/positions

the result tables concerning: - result table = panel - if You would do it as I mentioned in the post above it would of no matter if the opponent can see the other units of the battle, since every battle starts with new troop mix
- further You can use both indicators, percentage and (total) number of losses etc., to calculate the troops for PG/PC (maybe even for TOAW???)

multiple attacks concerning: - if more units as "allowed" attack a hex it could transferred to CM in the way that the defender has to hold his position against diverse "waves" and his men can´t recreate for that attacks

the experience level concerning: - to make it easy as possible I would, in case You have to merge two units, give the new one the better experience level - counts only if You merge units for CM battling


That´s what I wanted mentioned after a first look on Your rules. Because I have no idea of TOAW I made all suggestion for a PG - CM - combination. But maybe one can something transfer for TOAW.

Greetings :)

P.S.: By the way - Wherefor stands HPS?
 
My english is not perfect too, as you I hope to be understandable :)

- Flags : in my idea the terrain on CM are not directly linked with "real" terrain of the battle (i.e. a specific town) but a overall representation of the HPS map, so the 5 flags should be used just to "delimit" (4 flag on the corner of a 1Km square) and "center" the hex.
- Battle type : the battle will be not "quick" but setup by master(s) so he decide the position of the flags, their only function is for the control of the hex (3 flag on 5 to control it).
- Final panel : The GM(s) receive the CM battle files too, so to stop the battle if the morale of a side are close to 20% (the surrender limit), in this mode the final panel will not show to the players, the GM will terminate the battle with the "ceasefire" option and see the result.

The CM OOB for each units involved in the strategic battle need to be write before the start of the campaign, in this case when the "X" battalion attack the "Y" company the GM(s) know exactly the type and class of the CM units to use, even when the defend player decide to get reinforcement from an adjacent hex, for example the "Z" company or the attacker use the "W" T34 brigade as reinforcement

Unlucky TOAW do not save in clear the battle files, so is impossible to edit it, all the HPS Panzer Campaigns save in clear the battle files and is easy to edit.

Greetings :)

here is the HPS site for Tobruk 41 : http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/Products/PZC/PZC_tobruk/panzer_campaigns_tobruk_41.htm
 
Here a vid of that PG that I mean.


It shows the very first mission/scenario of the german campaign and is set during the spanish civil war.

And thanks for the link, mate! Will go into later.
 
Downoladed PG 2, do not work on win 8, PG "Forever" version works.

Happy new year to all :)
 
That I wish You too, mate! :)

There are many links/adresses which don´t have a working PG file/folder. I take a look tomorrow from where I had it downloaded earlier. That works definitively on W7 but for 8 I don´t know. Hope the best!

Greetings :)
 
I found another form of PG - it´s named Open General. Maybe You should take a look at it. It´s a player developed version of PG. Could be interesting.

Greetings :)
 
hey boys ! yep, idiot94 and I are ready to rock and roll ... on something .. happy to 'hurry up and wait' on this one ... ;)
 
Open General works, PG2 works too, can the unit edited during the play ?
 
Great! :) If I understand You right You mean a unit of an ongoing game should change it´s paramters during the battle? For example their men strength? That isn´t possible. That would be against the game. Everybody could edit his unit(s) if are in need. The players would only cheat the whole time.
But it´s possible to change the unit´s name. And there one could fill in data if wanted. For example: The name of the unit is 116/6. One deletes it and write in 1stAD/12Tr/10INFv . That would be 1st Armor Division, 12 Tanks (r)egular, 10 infantry (v)eteran. So one could put a lot info in the name panel. That explains why You need an observer and one has to play via editor. If one would play the common way one always had to interrupt the game and start it anew for every clash. That would be the way. ;)

Greetings :)

P.S.: Open General is great but the editor looks very difficult for me. The PG2 editor is much easier to work with.
 
So we need
- A "game master" to edit the battle to adjust strength and/or cancel unit
- An observer to "replay" the orders of the players, stop them and setup a battle on CM
- Players eventually on a multilevel structure like CMMC

How to manage supply/disruption/out of ammo issues ?
 
So we need
- A "game master" to edit the battle to adjust strength and/or cancel unit

Definitely but only to control the HIGH COMMANDS and assist the players.

- An observer to "replay" the orders of the players, stop them and setup a battle on CM

Why replay? If the strategic part is played in the editor - nobody has nothing to replay. What we need is the opportunity to name the hexes with numbers. That has to be possible but I don´t know how. I´ll set a question at the Panzerliga - maybe they answer me.

- Players eventually on a multilevel structure like CMMC

Do You mean the thing what GAGA started before a few years? For a playtest we would only need two players - how would it be we both try it?

How to manage supply/disruption/out of ammo issues ?

I´m not really aware of the problem. Supply can adjusted from the OBSERVER. Same counts for the ammo. If You mean an ambush with the term disruption that is only of interest if playing at CM. Then OBSERVER has to create a pre-made map. Otherwise I see no problem for PG. One could set rules or, for that, one turn let PG do the ambush and then overtakes the losses for CM where the battle continues.

Greetings :)
 
The "strategic" players send the move to the observer"and the observer move the units using the game editor ?

What we need is the opportunity to name the hexes with numbers.

Why do not use the hex coordinate indicated on the top side of the screen ?




 
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