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The Greeks done it again

If Putin wants to get involved he'll swoop in and help clean up 'the mess' but to suggest the Russians orchestrated the Greek problems is a bit too much I think. The Greeks did the damage themselves and found a willing accomplice in the EU turning a blind eye to shoddy government budgets.

Going off the top of my head here but pretty sure membership of the Euro meant agreeing to no annual budget deficits of more than 3% of GDP. Seems reasonable as it's around that level that is manageable for most developed economies and encourages growth. Problem is Greece's deficit went as high as 15% of GDP. (And a whole lot of other countries in the EU also broke those kind of rules with no repercussions).

Rampant corruptions seeing a loss of dollars flowing out of the coffers and a frankly laughable retirement age, yeah good times don't last forever. But keep in mind this is economics, swings and roundabouts. Bad times don't last forever either. Pain is ahead for Greece regardless of which way this goes, but if they leave the Euro (at least in terms of currency), their replacement local currency will initially be worthless, making Greece an attractive place of in the long run for investments, tourism etc. Question is as dollars/euros start flowing towards a 'new Greece' where are they being taken out of? If it becomes cheaper for a UK family to holiday in the Greek isles rather than Spain, what implications does that have? It's a long road ahead with further pot holes navigate, but there is a road.
 
+1 to Ithikial's post.

Greece will become a great vacation spot for anyone coming from a country with a hard currency. One person's misery is anothers' happiness or so they say.

It makes little difference on who is to blame as it is usually the little people who will suffer the most.
 
Nice cartoon of Rico! Reminds a bit on the Monty Python´s movie where the French (from a castle) throw all kind of things (including a living cow) on King "Arthur" and his remaining men.
Concerning the Greek I´m with them. A total new start is the best in my eyes. I wish them all the best and am sure they will do/find their way. They should only be careful (and that is the most difficult part) not to repeat the failures of the past. But that count for almost all countries/systems if I think it right. And the FRG isn´t an exception in that.

Greetings :)
 
Corsaire31 said:
Just watched a one hour document on the whole story of the entrance of Greece in EEC and Eurozone, with interviews of many political and economical leaders of the time, and for me it is now absolutely clear that Europe let Greece in although everyone knew that the figures of the greek official accounts were false (thanks to Goldman Sachs who is now receiving 400 Mo Euros per year from Greece for the money swap).

So in a word all european governments of that time are responsible for today's situation, not the greek people.

And it's the same today, everybody knows the greek debt will never be paid, but they act like if they didn't know it.
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Amen to that Corsaire31 this is the No1 problem, Greece have never been allowed to be part of the Euro, we simply din't have the finance power for that. The last 40 years the former governments were from two parties the right wing Nea dimokratia and centre Pasok they were full of corruption and together with the bankers they are the major factor for Greece finance position. If the new government the leftist Siryza also fails then im afraid that the road is open for the neo nazis scum of Golden dawn. As for Putin and Russia the greek people have always friendly feelings with Russia mostly because the similar Orthodox faith, but no one expects here that Russia can help Greece, Putin has his own problems now.
Thank you friends for your kind words
 
2054172 said:
[ I don't care anymore what American's think about my comments] This is what I like about you ...face to face... I would buy you a beer for that attitude.



OK my little friend down south, I believe Corsair31's post # 17 hits the nail on the head with who is responsible and as usual there seems to be no way to jail the crooks that set it situation up...like the Goldman Sachs boys and EU Bankers.

As for Putin, he could of played more of a role in this but he is wise enough to allow it to collapse without any interference. I am sure if asked he will pony up money to help the Greek people and this is what scares the EU and US...Seeing Greece is part of NATO etc. The west is totally capable of falling with out any help from Putin, we seem to be doing a good job of it so far.

Maybe you could enlighten us as to how he is pulling strings etc.?
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My dear friend. I didn't say that Putin caused this mess. I simply stated that he will be the one who will profit from the mess.
Of course he didn't cause this. That is the doing of the EU itself as many have already stated.

But I ask you. Who and what country stands, from at the least a propaganda stand point, to gain the most from a country exiting from the EU? Who would love to have a new Allie that is a member of NATO and a past member of the EU?
All I'm saying is that Putin is a sly fox and his meeting in Moscow recently (http://news.yahoo.com/greek-pm-mosc...3bmpvBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--) just pulls the government of Greece closer to Moscow and further from Germany. And the recent pipeline deal helps in that matter as well (http://news.yahoo.com/russia-greece...yb21tBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--)

Look what they say in Pravda about Greece:
http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/06-07-2015/131217-greece_austerity-0/
http://english.pravda.ru/video/07-07-2015/131241-europe_greece-0/

That's all I'm saying. Putin/Russia stands to gain the most from this mess. Not the EU and not the Greek people. And I am certainly not say the Russians caused it.

Putin is a twister of everything. And he will use Greece and the Greeks to his betterment. As an example of this, after signing the pipeline deal Putin said this:
"If the EU wants Greece to pay its debt then it should be interested in the Greek economy growing. The EU should be applauding us. What's bad about creating new jobs in Greece?" On the surface this looks innocent enough. But since the Greek government owns all the businesses involved in this it won't help the average Greek just the people in power. And he knows this. But it sure looks like a valid argument. Below the surface it drips with a big "I got ya" to the EU.

And before you go on to say that I'm just a stupid American who is afraid of Russia, please remember that I have a high level of understanding of the Russian culture and their attitude toward the rest of the world. My wife is Ukrainian with half her family from Russia and I have traveled extensively there. Sometimes I feel the whole world doesn't understand the lies and deceit that come out of Moscow. To Russia Greece is just a pawn. They don't care about jobs or the Greek people. Trust me on this one. Putin will continue to meddle in Greece and just make more of a mess.

And I'm not that little. And would drink that beer with you.
 
Ithikial said:
If Putin wants to get involved he'll swoop in and help clean up 'the mess' but to suggest the Russians orchestrated the Greek problems is a bit too much I think.
Click to expand...
I didn't say that. Numbers said that I said that but i didn't.

Ithikial said:
The Greeks did the damage themselves and found a willing accomplice in the EU turning a blind eye to shoddy government budgets.

Going off the top of my head here but pretty sure membership of the Euro meant agreeing to no annual budget deficits of more than 3% of GDP. Seems reasonable as it's around that level that is manageable for most developed economies and encourages growth. Problem is Greece's deficit went as high as 15% of GDP. (And a whole lot of other countries in the EU also broke those kind of rules with no repercussions).

Rampant corruptions seeing a loss of dollars flowing out of the coffers and a frankly laughable retirement age, yeah good times don't last forever. But keep in mind this is economics, swings and roundabouts. Bad times don't last forever either. Pain is ahead for Greece regardless of which way this goes, but if they leave the Euro (at least in terms of currency), their replacement local currency will initially be worthless, making Greece an attractive place of in the long run for investments, tourism etc. Question is as dollars/euros start flowing towards a 'new Greece' where are they being taken out of? If it becomes cheaper for a UK family to holiday in the Greek isles rather than Spain, what implications does that have? It's a long road ahead with further pot holes navigate, but there is a road.
Click to expand...
Well said.
 
@DasTiger thank you for carrying on in a calm collected fashion. I will try not to be so obtuse [ lol , did you have to look that up]. I always find it funny that people who read the same things can get different things from the same info. I guess it all depends on what bias glasses one views the facts with to start with. I agree with the Pravda quotes you gave. The EU as you know is anything but democratic, the people of Europe do not get to vote any of the officials into power. God Russia is more democratic then they are. I am not talking about individual leaders of countries by the way.

I think it is a good thing that countries talk things out and if Greece and Russia can talk things out good one for them and hopefully others will start doing the same and stop listening to the war mongers. There are many other facets to this discussion that play equally big roles, i.e. Greece has a leftist party dealing with a right wing / dictatorship of an EU. Greece being part of NATO, and the rights of the people of Greece to determine what they want to do with their own country. Seeing The EU had a kick at the cat and put in an un-elected banker group to run their country further into the ground.

I guess we will have to disagree and see how the chips fall and pray for the welfare of the Greek people. May God grant them mercy in the coming years.
 
In Ireland we were in the same boat as Greece, since the 2008 crash. Things have picked up this year regarding recession, due in part to taking our medicine, tax hikes, more taxes and Britain's economy getting stronger, as our near neighbour, but the country will still owe billions upon billions for the next few decades.
 
2054172 said:
@DasTiger thank you for carrying on in a calm collected fashion. I will try not to be so obtuse [ lol , did you have to look that up].
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No. But I'm sure you did. Hahahhahaha. Sorry. I couldn't resist that one. You laid that one out there like a softball thrown from a 12 year old one armed girl. Or like a question to Obama/Hillary from CNN.
2054172 said:
I always find it funny that people who read the same things can get different things from the same info. I guess it all depends on what bias glasses one views the facts with to start with. I agree with the Pravda quotes you gave.
Click to expand...

Of course you do. I can spot a Socialist from over a thousand miles and over the US/Canadian border. You have to remember that since I think Reagan shat the Moon and the Stars I have gotten very good at spotting socialists. (Do you secretly have a picture of Lenin on your wall.....?) :):)

2054172 said:
I think it is a good thing that countries talk things out and if Greece and Russia can talk things out good one for them and hopefully others will start doing the same and stop listening to the war mongers.
Click to expand...
You might talk TO Putin but he's really not listening. The whole time YOU'RE talking he's just visualizing you bent over a barrel with your pants around your ankles waiting to see how deep he can go and him wondering if you'll realize he's trying to go deep or not. All the time with him wearing his sunglasses and his cocky little smile. Nice visual, huh?

2054172 said:
I guess we will have to disagree and see how the chips fall and pray for the welfare of the Greek people. May God grant them mercy in the coming years.
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Ok. But I retain hope that you will finally realize that I'm right. The praying part I'm right there with you.
:cheers:

And please don't take me to seriously.
 
DasTiger said:
And please don't take me to seriously.
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Oh I don't take anyone south of the boarder seriously... I don't want to get droned!

Yes I did leave that open and you nailed it, excellent come back.:worship:

AS for pictures, I only have Che Guevara that my son brought be back from Cuba.:cheers:
 
Ithikial said:
Thanks I guess I get to keep my job. I do this stuff for living, just not with a Greek focus. :D
Click to expand...
I was an Econ major in College and can respect you for your knowledge on these subjects. It would be an interesting discussion to have a drink and discuss different economic models from the world economies. Past and present.
 
DasTiger said:
I can spot a Socialist from over a thousand miles and over the US/Canadian border. You have to remember that since I think Reagan shat the Moon and the Stars I have gotten very good at spotting socialists.
Click to expand...

You say that like you've got something against a socialist.... I wonder what the difference is in meaning between the American word "socialist" and what we in Europe think the word socialist means. I think they differ a lot.
 
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