US Govt shutdown

Rico

Rico

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Let me see if I have this right... basically US is broke with gigantic bank overdraft and to keep in business from day to day it's just awarding itself ever bigger and bigger overdrafts?

To sum up global economics 101: If you're the biggest economy in the world (with nukes, biggest military in the world bought with mountains of credit), you don't have to bother to learn how to balance your cheque book?
 
Funny they make fun of Russia yet Russia has no debts . LOL Who is the wiser one in that situation?
 
You guys have it slightly off. We haven't defaulted on our debt, we have simply reached an impasse in this years budget. It's not the end of the world and I wouldn't suggest betting against the US. It is a political maneuver by the minority party (they only control 1/3 of the govt) Republicans, which if history is any indicator, will bite them in the arse, as they will rightfully bear the blame for it's occurrence, just as in 1995. If the historical precedent holds, they will suffer in next years elections for this ploy. All vital depts will continue running and the problem will be resolved before long, as the American people don't like this kind of chicanery.

Now the real problem in our future is the Debt Ceiling vote, which is ~ 6 weeks away. The Republicans are threatening to not raise it, therefore causing the US to default on some of it's debts for the first time in our history. The ramifications for which are predicted to be horrifying to our (and the world's) economy. After they get burned by all the feedback for the 'Shutdown', I doubt there will be a plurality of Republicans willing to take us down that path.
 
strange to us Brits
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Aye, as it is with us. This does not occur very often, last occurred 17 years ago, and when it does, it is usually very short in duration. You will see some very skittish Republican politicians because of this, as it was well established before the fact, that the American people will be placing blame for this crap, primarily on the Republicans. So much so, that the moderate Republicans were trying to avert this from happening, but the Tea Party Conservatives are an unruly bunch, who don't play well with others. There shall now be a toll to pay in next years elections, I hope.
 
Facman said:
You guys have it slightly off. We haven't defaulted on our debt, we have simply reached an impasse in this years budget. It's not the end of the world and I wouldn't suggest betting against the US. It is a political maneuver by the minority party (they only control 1/3 of the govt) Republicans, which if history is any indicator, will bite them in the arse, as they will rightfully bear the blame for it's occurrence, just as in 1995. If the historical precedent holds, they will suffer in next years elections for this ploy. All vital depts will continue running and the problem will be resolved before long, as the American people don't like this kind of chicanery.

Now the real problem in our future is the Debt Ceiling vote, which is ~ 6 weeks away. The Republicans are threatening to not raise it, therefore causing the US to default on some of it's debts for the first time in our history. The ramifications for which are predicted to be horrifying to our (and the world's) economy. After they get burned by all the feedback for the 'Shutdown', I doubt there will be a plurality of Republicans willing to take us down that path.
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Indeed, the few Tea Party members left in Congress are still foaming at the mouth whenever they hear the phrase Obamacare, as a result they believe it okay to place their personal agenda ahead of simple things such as keeping the U.S. government open for business. This has been their M.O. since they became a political entity and they continue to prey on the disillusion and ignorance of many an American. I don't have any true political leanings, I don't lean any majority left or right (for those Europeans here, America seems to have our definition of Liberal and Conservative backwards) but what I do hate is idiots, bigots, and fear mongers, which coincidentally is a series of adjectives far too noble to describe members of the Tea Party.
A perverse side of me would like to see these nutjobs derail American credit and our Government, in the hopes that this will be a strong reminder branded in the memory of every American of what happens when political Faction (faction with a capital F, as noted in George Washington's Farewell Address and Article #10 of the Federalist Papers [both great history reads, highly recommended]) takes hold, and collaboration--regardless of political party--gives way to petty partisanship and namecalling
 
Unfortunately, this political BS seems to be a constant. The Democrats insist on spending money that we don't have, and the Republicans (jealous of the Democrats' success) refuse to engage in reasonable compromise.

I note that Congress is threatening to shut down the country and stop paying federal employees, including militry personnel, but Congress will apparently continue to get paid. Huh ...
 
mTk & Nord said:
The budget could be passed tomorrow, but the fight is over the issue of "Obamacare".
Obama won't pass the budget without its inclusion and the Republicans have a wee bit of a problem with that....
I note that Congress is threatening to shut down the country and stop paying federal employees, including militry personnel, but Congress will apparently continue to get paid. Huh ...
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Tea Party Republicans (gee I wonder where this will go) shoehorned into this year's government budget resolution a clause that demanded that the funding for Obamacare be pushed back a year, which cleared the H of R, but the Senate unlike the Tea Party does not have asses for heads and promptly removed said Obamacare clause*. This meant that the Senate nor the House could agree on a budget because one branch would not ratify it without the Obamacare clause and the other branch realized that running a government is more important that having a hissyfit over a law congressmen/women take issue with.

The one thing that was done correctly was during this whole kerfuffle Congress did pass a resolution stating that in the event of shutdown servicemen and women would continue to get paid. For all the bullshit happening at least when it comes to our soldiers everyone knows the right thing to do.

*The new Senate Bill was drafted in spite of Senator Ted Cruz, who, "pressed ahead hour after hour with his opposition, comparing his fight to efforts by leaders who stood against the Nazis, ended the cold war or started the American Revolution." in an effort to revoke this healthcare law. If ever there was a single more individual most deserving of the Congressional Dunce cap it would be this guy, singlehandedly speaking for 21 HOURS about repealing the damn healthcare law, 21 HOURS that should have been spent keeping the Government running.
 
the fight is over the issue of "Obamacare".
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Yes, the Republicans would rather see the country shutdown, than insure millions of Americans who don't currently have any healthcare.

The Democrats insist on spending money that we don't have, and the Republicans (jealous of the Democrats' success) refuse to engage in reasonable compromise.
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I seem to remember that the last President didn't have any trouble spending more than we brought in either. Just saying...
 
Lordy, Lordy, Lordy. You know, you guys are lucky to have me as a member of our beloved club so that I can explain things...... :D

@General Specific I'll start here. " idiots", "Nutjobs", "bigots" and "fear mongers" are all part of "partisanship and namecalling" . And I will assume by the previously quoted items you are slightly left leaning. That's cool. But it goes to show that it is usually the liberals who resort to such tactics. It is hard to debate the facts when the left resorts to such methods as namecalling So you are partly correct. Just mistaken in identifying the offending party. I don't consider myself a Tea Bagger. I do consider myself a Conservative and find your views a little harsh towards the political right. Just teasing you. Both side do it. But please don't name call here. Some of us (I should say myself since I am a minority) might get offended.

@Facman. Dude. I just love you. That about sums it up. First beers on you.

For the next segment I will be quoting from this site:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt

I am using the Public Debt a a % of GDP column.
@Rico South Africa has a 43.3 ratio
@Bootie As you know, technically, Scotland is part of England but In your heart as well as mine, it is it own land. I have relatives from the beautiful land.
@2054172 Canada has a 84.1 ratio
@Nelson1812 United Kingdom has a 88.7 ratio
And the USA has a 73.6 ratio
Those in glass houses should not throw stones. And instead of throwing stones, they should tend to their own domestic problems.
@mTk @Nort
I had to include you guys to make it a complete discussion.

And about Obamacare. Our friends from foreign lands who have free health care (or some assemblance of) can not understand why anyone would not want such a program.
The reasons people don't iike it are many fold and I won't touch on all of them. But the main displeasure is that it ISN"T FREE. Yes. It is NOT free.

Some examples:
A 27-year-old living in Dallas making $25,000 could pay as little as $74 a month for the cheapest "bronze" plan after subsidies, according to the Department of Health and Human Services.
But a 60-year-old in Wyoming who makes more than $46,000 a year -- too much to get a tax credit -- could pay as much as $758 for a similar plan.
The lower your income and the more expensive the benchmark plan in your state, the larger your subsidy. For instance, those making $17,235 a year will pay no more than 4% of income, or $57 a month, for the benchmark plan. Those with incomes between $34,470 and $45,960 will pay a maximum of 9.5% of income, or $364 a month, for that benchmark plan. The federal government will cover the rest.

So there is the problem. A 27 year old making $25K will pay about $74 a month. Hello!!!!!! $74 a month to a 27 year old making 25K is a substantial sum.
Lets not even talk about the new "rich" guy in Wyoming who has to pay $758. Instead of getting free health care he got another payment the size of his mortgage!!!!!

So you say "Just don't get the insurance". Then you will pay a fine. Which starts at a low $95 a year and goes up each year after that until it becomes cheaper to buy the insurance. Maybe now you guys can understand why some people in Washington don't want to see this program go into effect. It could RUIN the economy by removing disposable income. No more movies, CDs, video games, crap from China, etc..

Bottom line is they crammed Obamacare down our throats and most people don't give a damn. Yet Congress sits up there and says it's good for us. Except for a few. I say shut the whole damn thing down. And can we stop paying taxes until the government fires back up? No.....

Just an opposing view of things. Love you guys!
 
Oh but Im from Northern Ireland. I wasnt trashing your budget disagreement just the fact that the situation sounds like.... hell we cant agree... lets shut things down and cool of and see who backs down first. A game of political chicken. And these guys were voted in to "run" the country. :)
 
Bootie said:
Oh but Im from Northern Ireland. I wasnt trashing your budget disagreement just the fact that the situation sounds like.... hell we cant agree... lets shut things down and cool of and see who backs down first. A game of political chicken. And these guys were voted in to "run" the country. :)
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Sorry sir. I knew that. As I typed I was going off of what was in the little side column under each of our names. But as most Americans I have both Irish and Scottish in me. So I love both.

And please don't shut it down on my accord. I have learned not to let the topics in the Musket Room bother me. I know that I a minority here and I just speak my side and continue to enjoy everyone here. And you are right. The guys who try to lead actually fail.
 
@Facman. Dude. I just love you. That about sums it up. First beers on you.
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Yo DT, I love you too man! And I'd be honored to buy you a beer.

Let me state first, that the Affordable Care Act as it is currently written, is flawed. No question about it. And the biggest reason for that in my opinion, is that the Republicans didn't participate in writing it. Why? Because in their infinite wisdom, the Republicans chose to pursue a course to make anything Obama tried, fail. To concentrate on making him a 'one term president', as Sen. Mitch McConnell stated was their focus, just days after he was elected in 2008. Instead of participating in the writing of the law, they chose to put all their energy in making it fail.
Now I won't be the first to say this, but elections have consequences. In this case, they had a young president with the wind in his sails, and through elaborate dodging and weaving to avoid the blockages set up by the opposition, the law was passed. There was an attempt to scuttle it via the Supreme Court which failed. There have been over 40 votes in the House to scrub the law from the books, also to no avail.
So here we are in Obama's 2nd term (Republican fail), with the economy struggling to get back on it's feet after the 'Great Recession', and the Republican 'Party of No', threatening to throw us back into a recession, just to make a political point. Now all legitimate debates reach a point where one must put aside their distaste for something, and look to the greater good. I sincerely hope that the opposition can come to the conclusion that they need not beat a dead horse, and will live to fight another day. Hell, I'd be glad to see them step up to the plate and help correct some of the flaws in the Healthcare law, but in order to do that, they must accept that the American people have spoken. If they didn't want Obama and his healthcare plan, they wouldn't have re-elected him and Romney would be dismantling it as we speak.
 
Nice try Facman...the Republicans didn't participate because the law was railroaded through dude. Hell, Nancy Pelosi and whoever was the Senate majority leader then CHANGED the rules of Congress to limit debate and suspend the filibuster. That's why the Republican's won control of the House to begin with during the Obama admin's first term midterm elections.

As for any federal employee being "hurt" by the shutdown, Congress will vote them back pay, they did it the last time...the Federal government is the nation's largest employer, so that voting bloc will get their money.

During the first Obama term, there was talk of sending home 880,000 non-essential Federal employees. How much money do you think it costs to keep that many "non-essentail" people employed? keep in mind the average wage for a Federal employee was a little over $76000 in 2012, you do the math. Its $ 66,880,000,000 in salary, no bennies, no materials, no infrastructure, etc... just salary. Do you get the pixture, the Federal government is primarily a high paying jobs program...

SOOOOOOOO, printing money is not the solution...

Facman, read the polls, the MAJORITY of voters DON"T want Obamacare...maybe the president should listen and do the will of the people...instead of being the President of "No-it-all" . Instead, he blames the republicans again, ad nauseum, just like he has since he was elected. The Republicans tried to get him to suspend the law until the flaws got worked out, but instead he hands out exemptions to groups (unions) that contributed to his election and supported Obamacare. Once they found out how much this new law would cost them, they went demanding an exemption to being in the Obamacare mess...

If it looks like a turd and smells like a turd, what is it? A crappy law!

And one more rant, I do not think the government should EVER pass a law that requires mandatory conformance to anything except the draft. We are all obligated to defend the Constitution and the US...
 
Why are we not surprised that the politicians take care of themselves first? ...LOL ... same story everywhere it seems. :rolleyes:

Congress still gets paid -- it's in the Constitution

Washington (CNN) -- In an extended shutdown, most of the federal workforce would go without pay, but the checks will keep coming to the 533 current members of Congress.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/30/politics/shutdown-congress-staff-paid/index.html
 
"the MAJORITY of voters DON"T want Obamacare..."

In it's current incarnation. I needed to make that clarification.
 
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