D
C
Combat Wombat
Guest
Vale ...was on tonight's news here is Aussie.. love the Brits , they are so good at showing the right respect ...
... and not disrespecting what all fantastic these people did, I wish we could find all these 'lost' servicemen and thank them before they go ..
... and not disrespecting what all fantastic these people did, I wish we could find all these 'lost' servicemen and thank them before they go ..
U
Unknown
Guest
Bomber Crews - especially the British - mainly "fought" against civilians.
B
Bert Blitzkrieg
Guest
Shorker.... very thin ice. Those who live in glass houses should not cast stones. All I have in response to that comment is consider the millions of Jewish, Slav, Gypsy, Mentally Handicapped, Political "combatants" the Nazis "fought" against during their time in power.
Last edited:
U
Unknown
Guest
@Combat Wombat @Bert Blitzkrieg @Bootie
I did not mean to hurt anybody's feelings here.
Background for my comment was this:
In view of 500.000 German civilians killed in Allied bombings I felt offended by Combat's comment when he wrote: "... and not disrespecting what all fantastic these people did".
If it was 10:00 a.m. this morning again I wouldn't reply to Combat Wombat's posting again and just leave it the way it is.
***********************************************************************************************************************************************************
Hopefully we can exchange some reasonable arguments between intelligent people.
1. I do not feel like living in a glass house - I was born in 1967 - 22 years after the end of WWII. Please do not mix Nazis with Germans - as
not every Arab is a Terrorist, every Cambodian is a Red Khmer etc.
2. No need to say that the Nazis and their helpers committed horrible crimes, which were disgusting and cannot be justified by anything. (And this was not my point at all).
But there is no "competition" in committing crimes of mass murder and there is no "good" mass murder.
As I said already - I didn't mean to hurt anybody's feelings but I took offence at the indifferentiated "black and white view" of WWII which I think is somewhat too simple
and falls too short for us hobby historians.
Maybe in this regard this is of interest for you:
I did not mean to hurt anybody's feelings here.
Background for my comment was this:
In view of 500.000 German civilians killed in Allied bombings I felt offended by Combat's comment when he wrote: "... and not disrespecting what all fantastic these people did".
If it was 10:00 a.m. this morning again I wouldn't reply to Combat Wombat's posting again and just leave it the way it is.
***********************************************************************************************************************************************************
Hopefully we can exchange some reasonable arguments between intelligent people.
1. I do not feel like living in a glass house - I was born in 1967 - 22 years after the end of WWII. Please do not mix Nazis with Germans - as
not every Arab is a Terrorist, every Cambodian is a Red Khmer etc.
2. No need to say that the Nazis and their helpers committed horrible crimes, which were disgusting and cannot be justified by anything. (And this was not my point at all).
But there is no "competition" in committing crimes of mass murder and there is no "good" mass murder.
As I said already - I didn't mean to hurt anybody's feelings but I took offence at the indifferentiated "black and white view" of WWII which I think is somewhat too simple
and falls too short for us hobby historians.
Maybe in this regard this is of interest for you:
U
Unknown
Guest
...and I hope that we can be friends and play Combat Mission together.
D
Dutch Grenadier
Guest
Shorker don't feel so bad. I must admit that I can understand why you have said that. And I think you are mostly right (yes I know thin ice...) Both sides bombed the crap out of eachother to reach a certain goal. Bombing a city has no military goal. And yes bombers killed more civilians than soldiers.
I don't Judge folks here for where they come from. So even the fact that you are a German doesn't count for the fact that you have anything to do with what happend 70+ years ago.
All sides commited warcrimes but the fact that the nazi's lost the war their warcrimes are remembered and judged.
Even today soldiers (yes NATO and US) commit warcrimes.
So buckle up
I don't Judge folks here for where they come from. So even the fact that you are a German doesn't count for the fact that you have anything to do with what happend 70+ years ago.
All sides commited warcrimes but the fact that the nazi's lost the war their warcrimes are remembered and judged.
Even today soldiers (yes NATO and US) commit warcrimes.
So buckle up
... let's also not forget that the veterans laid to rest now were at the time 18, 19, 20-year-olds who served, most just did their duty with various levels of martial enthusiasm and ability, followed orders from the higher ups and mostly had very little real idea of what was going on beyond their trench, their tank turret or their air gunner station in a bomber ... often too young and too terrified to ask any really hard questions of what this was all about until it was all over.
D
Dutch Grenadier
Guest
Bassicly --> war is hell!
I did not mean to hurt anybody's feelings here.
You didnt hurt my feelings I just thought it was a strange comment to make.
Background for my comment was this:
In view of 500.000 German civilians killed in Allied bombings I felt offended by Combat's comment when he wrote: "... and not disrespecting what all fantastic these people did".
You should have stated why you wrote it instead of just throwing an 'anti' British sentiment out.
Hopefully we can exchange some reasonable arguments between intelligent people.
Indeed. Im not defending the events that occurred 70 years ago. Its not my place too. Those events belong to a different time and circumstance... one which I certainly dont have the expertise to comment upon.
1. I do not feel like living in a glass house - I was born in 1967 - 22 years after the end of WWII. Please do not mix Nazis with Germans - as not every Arab is a Terrorist, every Cambodian is a Red Khmer etc.
I understand but the way your post was worded made it sound like the British... especially the British were the only ones that bombed civilians hence the glass house comment.... I was not calling you a Nazi merely illustrating your 'country' doesnt have an impeccable record in regards to human rights in the 20th Century.
http://bombsight.org/#10/51.4993/-0.1160
2. No need to say that the Nazis and their helpers committed horrible crimes, which were disgusting and cannot be justified by anything. (And this was not my point at all).
But there is no "competition" in committing crimes of mass murder and there is no "good" mass murder.
I was just resetting the equilibrium....
As I said already - I didn't mean to hurt anybody's feelings but I took offence at the indifferentiated "black and white view" of WWII which I think is somewhat too simple and falls too short for us hobby historians.
No feelings were hurt I was just like 'Wow, did he really just say that...!' considering the original story was about a poor lonely old man going to his grave with no one to say goodbye. The fact that he worked for Bomber Command...as ground crew I hasten to add is nothing but a side story for me. One thing that did niggle me about the article is the way the word 'hero' is bandied about these days. It devalues the true heroes. So we will put this one too bed... shake hands and move on.
You didnt hurt my feelings I just thought it was a strange comment to make.
Background for my comment was this:
In view of 500.000 German civilians killed in Allied bombings I felt offended by Combat's comment when he wrote: "... and not disrespecting what all fantastic these people did".
You should have stated why you wrote it instead of just throwing an 'anti' British sentiment out.
Hopefully we can exchange some reasonable arguments between intelligent people.
Indeed. Im not defending the events that occurred 70 years ago. Its not my place too. Those events belong to a different time and circumstance... one which I certainly dont have the expertise to comment upon.
1. I do not feel like living in a glass house - I was born in 1967 - 22 years after the end of WWII. Please do not mix Nazis with Germans - as not every Arab is a Terrorist, every Cambodian is a Red Khmer etc.
I understand but the way your post was worded made it sound like the British... especially the British were the only ones that bombed civilians hence the glass house comment.... I was not calling you a Nazi merely illustrating your 'country' doesnt have an impeccable record in regards to human rights in the 20th Century.
http://bombsight.org/#10/51.4993/-0.1160
2. No need to say that the Nazis and their helpers committed horrible crimes, which were disgusting and cannot be justified by anything. (And this was not my point at all).
But there is no "competition" in committing crimes of mass murder and there is no "good" mass murder.
I was just resetting the equilibrium....
As I said already - I didn't mean to hurt anybody's feelings but I took offence at the indifferentiated "black and white view" of WWII which I think is somewhat too simple and falls too short for us hobby historians.
No feelings were hurt I was just like 'Wow, did he really just say that...!' considering the original story was about a poor lonely old man going to his grave with no one to say goodbye. The fact that he worked for Bomber Command...as ground crew I hasten to add is nothing but a side story for me. One thing that did niggle me about the article is the way the word 'hero' is bandied about these days. It devalues the true heroes. So we will put this one too bed... shake hands and move on.
Also I need only say 3 words that sum it up nicely.....The London Blitz .......Many Many civilians killed .......I rest my case
The death toll of the UK-wide Blitz was 51,509 over 8 months, Dresden lost approx 25'000 in one night Ted.
Yes I know Dresden was very bad, you can't justify one against the other, people were still killed through bombing
Plus Bomber Command lost many....During the Second World War, young men from all over the world volunteered to serve with the RAF in Bomber Command. 55,573 did not return.
Last edited:
C
Combat Wombat
Guest
sigh ... Shorker .. I meant the people who went to the funeral ! .! . The 'fantastic' thing was to attend a funeral of a person they had never met....
An often forgotten fact is that more French civilians died under Allied bombs during the bombing campaign in preparation and support of Normandy campaign, than British civilians in the Blitz -- although by 1944 air operations were on an entirely different scale of destruction by then.
Can't fault that.
U
Unknown
Guest
...oh man.... if only I had paid more attention in my English lessons when I was in school... *gg!
I'm sorry and I apologize for having misunderstood this thread and for posting such an inadequate and rude comment first.
I'm not anti British at all - I like the British, I'm interested in their history and culture. I was in Scotland, I visited London two times
(and the fantastic Imperial War Museum) and this year I was in Ireland for a week.
I will improve my future postings by telling the reason and do it with less emotion.
Thanks to you all for your comments, answers, explanations and good advice.
(Couldn't sleep very well last night - was afraid if I open this thread again this morning there will be a "shit storm" against me.... - I'm glad that it did not happen.)
C
Combat Wombat
Guest
well, I accept you apology.. but demand satisfaction Sir .. ! ! Game file on the way ..