Who got Wittman?

P

PoorOldSpike

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This video has just been released-

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Publicity blurb- "The story of two men destined to face each other on the battlefields of Normandy is told in this programme. Michael Wittmann was a knight of the Nazi empire, a natural and accomplished soldier and highly decorated. Like Wittmann, Trooper Joe Ekins, a shoemaker from Northamptonshire, was a volunteer for military service but there the similarities ended. Joe was a reluctant soldier in a county yeomanry armoured regiment, while Wittmann served in the Waffen SS’s elite Tiger Battalion"

http://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/?product_id=2457

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Personally I used to think Ekins got Wittman, but after researching it I'm not so sure.
The facts gleaned from assorted articles and write-ups are these-
The bottom line is there were 4 Tigers in Wittman's group and all were knocked out; Ekins got 3, one of which may or may not have been Wittman's, so who got the 4th?
Canadian Sherman 75mm's were engaging the Tigers at closer range so they probably got the 4th, but whether it was Wittman's we just don't know.


Strategic situation two weeks before the engagement (blue circle)-
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Below:- yellow line is the Canadian/British approx front line.
Wittmans four Tigers advance along the blue arrow (1)
Ekins' Firefly at (2) knocks out three of them, one of which may or may not have been Wittmans.
Canadian Sherman 75mm's at (3) engaged the Tigers but claimed no kills.
The end of the engagement sees four wrecked Tigers (red circles), Ekins got three but who got the fourth?
Maybe the Canadians got it, after all the range was short so although they never claimed any kills maybe a 75mm round penetrated a Tigers side armour and started a fire which after some delay, detonated the onboard ammo?
Or did a fighter-bomber get the fourth Tiger? A local farmer reportedly found a rocket casing near the wrecks..
(the camera icon on the road at bott left is the spot from where the following google panorama pics were taken)
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X marks the spot of Wittmans wrecked Tiger-
This view is looking approx East-
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These views complete the 360-degree panorama to set the scene-
Approx North-
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Approx West-
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Approx South-
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Approx Southeast-
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Aerial photo of the shellhole-littered area the day after the battle, the circles mark the 4 Tiger wrecks-

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Another vid-
"I was sort of thinking 'Get the b*stards before they get me"- Firefly gunner Joe Ekins

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At least one researcher discounts the rocket theory-
"There has previously been much speculation (for example, in After the Battle magazine) that a high-explosive (RP-3) rocket from a RAF Hawker Typhoon aircraft dealt the fatal blow to Wittmann's Tiger. Reid has discredited the Typhoon theory by close examination of 2nd Tactical Air Force logs, concluding "no tanks were claimed destroyed or damaged in the forward areas by immediate support aircraft and ... the only tanks claimed were by Typhoons on armed reconnaissance missions in areas away from the actual battle. Therefore Wittman and his crew almost assuredly did not fall victim to an attack from the air." (p. 429) German records also seem to confirm this; Reid mentions that Kurt Meyer, Wittman's commanding officer, "made a point of remarking on the Allies' failure to use their tactical fighters on the morning of 8 August." (p.426)
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Military-History-669/second-world-war-1.htm

Anyway who really cares who got Wittman? In my view he was no better or worse than any other panzer commander and his luck eventually ran out, simple as that.
 
Even Captain Boardman of 'A' squadron says he was surprised Wittmans tanks were in line ahead presenting perfect targets. Good tank commanders don't present the enemy with perfect targets.
In fairness to Wittman maybe he was combat weary and errors of judgement began creeping in..

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I guess it just was a tough tactical call coupled with bad luck. You have to make educated guesses sooner or later and it indeed does look like Wittmann thought that there were only 75mm Shermans on the right flank - or that the longer distance to St. Aignan would give him just a big enough chance to survive and take out the more immediate threat.
Either way it is better to take even great risks than to sit there and wait for the enemy to overwhelm you. And what could he have done differently besides not doing at all?
 
Wittman got command of his first Tiger in April 43 and naturally ran riot destroying the inferior T-34/76's, because the T-34/85 (which could slug it out with Tigers) didn't begin arriving at the front for about another 10 months in early 1944.
Wittman was sent to the Western Front and repeated his performance, running riot with his Tiger among inferior Sherman 75's and Cromwells.
I'm not saying he was a bad panzer commander (there were none) I'm just speculating whether he'd have lasted so long if he'd had a Panzer IV instead of a Tiger.
As we know, when he went up against the best western Allied tank of 1944 (the Firefly), his luck quickly ran out..
 
As a former Tank Commander with almost 20 years of experience I can tell you that not all Tank Commanders are the same and the amount of damage that Wittman's tank was able to inflict is quite a feat. A highly trained tank crew with an aggressive tank commander is worth its weight in gold. POS, your comparison of the tanks capabilities are spot on. But it is foolish to think that the quality of the tank means anything if the crew is average or inferior. How do you explain the Germans incredible success in the initial stages of Barbarossa when the Russians clearly had the superior machines? A well trained and aggressive tank crew can litterally run circles around an untrained crew and that is what makes the real difference.
Lord Bane
 
And don't forget that Wittmann actually started out as StuG commander in 1941, so he got plenty of experience against superior tanks before he switched to the Tiger.
 
Lord Bane (FGM) said:
...the amount of damage that Wittman's tank was able to inflict is quite a feat... How do you explain the Germans incredible success in the initial stages of Barbarossa when the Russians clearly had the superior machines?
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Yes Wittman got most of his kills while commanding a Tiger against inferior T-34/76's and Sher 75's because an invulnerable Tiger kinda gives you an edge..;)
As for the opening stages of Barbarossa, the Russkis fielded mostly tin cans (T-26's/ BT's) and the superior panzers went through them like butter, but later the honeymoon ended-
"Here for the first time, the enemy employed his T-34 tank, a tank against which our guns at that time were largely ineffective"- Guderian (Panzer Leader page 162) on the Russian attack at Borissov on July 3rd 41
 
Incidentally, speaking of aggressive crews, Firefly gunner Joe Ekins saw 4 mighty Tigers in front of him but showed he was made of the right stuff by what he says in videos-
"I was sort of thinking 'Get the ba*tards before they get me....Anybody who goes into another persons country to kill is a criminal. He [Wittman] might have been a hero to the Germans, but not to me"
Within minutes he'd knocked out 3 of them and other Allied tankers had got the 4th..

Ekins
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The bottom line is that Ekins knocked out 3 Tigers which was a bleddy fantastic piece of shooting, and whether Wittmans tank was one of them is beside the point..:)
Entry in Ekin's unit log-

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good reading. but think about it guys. whittman did not destroy all the units he is said to have killed. Huh? His friggen gunner did. Whittman died while his gunner was on leave. and..Someone found a dogtag of Whittman a few months back. And he may have been killed in a carpet bombing. just saying......

rommel
 
mTk said:
Everything I've read (and seen ie. Wittman's dead Tiger) leads me to believe Wittman's Tiger took a hit from a rocket off a ground attack aircraft. Tough way to go for a storied panzer commander, but there ya' go.
Click to expand...
Hello. My father-in-law was with the 22nd Canadian Armoured Regiment (Canadian Grenadier Guards) and fought in the battle of Falaise in August of 1944 (Totalise and Tractable). I have just discovered this site, and find this particular thread about the battle for Falaise, to be extremely interesting and well done. With regard to who took out Michael Wittman's tank, would like to post a link to a documentary by Norm Christie, which aired a few years ago. He offers some possible insight into who took out the 4th (Wittman's) tank. Am looking forward to reading this thread in depth. An excellent accounting.
 
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