Hell let loose

MeatEtr

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Ok folks, this was released yesterday June 6th... anybody take the bite yet? From the live videos/feedback it sounds like a great start for an early access game. I may give it a few weeks, see how the launch dust settles.

The big steam summer sale starts in a few weeks, end of June is the ETA. But Greenman Gaming have it on sale for 20% off (24% off for members). This is a European company, so those of us in USA will pay an extra few bucks, which brings the total to $25, still better than 30 though from anywhere else.
 

Concord

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I'm still very interested. However, from reading the reviews, there are some problems.
Most of the negative reviews seem to be coming from early Kickstarter fans who have supported the game for years (money, testing, development suggestions).
The vision the developers and supporters had and were working towards has been gimped by a last minute change of publisher or developer.

They said that the game used to have big maps with lots of sectors to control, which lead to a more strategic maneuvering kind of play. It worked well.
At the last minute (just before alpha release) the maps were reduced significantly in size, leading to a more funnelled approach.
In addition, spawn points can now be placed very close to objectives, leading to an arcade-like rush in and respawn mentality.
The old backers say that the original thinking man's game has been replaced by a run-and-gun arcade style one.

Apparently things like the sound were excellent, and at the last minute have reverted to a very poor substitute.
Previously the quality was better, and you could also judge the distance and direction very well compared to the release.
Animations too have apparently taken a hit. Reasons to work as a team rather than lone-wolfing have taken a hit.

I can understand their disappointment in having so many great aspects of the game ruined, so late in the development.
It seems like a betrayal based on corporate interference, after they had helped it develop into something exceptional.
It sounds like the new publishers (or developers?) have catered to the lowest common denominator, trying to sell more copies to twitch-action kiddies.
I'm not convinced either way, but it is something to consider, particularly given the price tag. I'm on the fence.
 

Bulletpoint

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Thanks for the heads up.

I'm a bit wary of early access games though. You're basically playing to be a beta tester in the hope that the game will turn out like they say it will. I'll wait until more of that roadmap actually gets done, and see where it goes..
 

MeatEtr

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I bought it... played it then refunded it. :)

I found it hard to get a game. There was no team work.... and you had a fair distance to run to get into the battle only to die and have to run about 1km to get back in the battle.

I may revisit it in future.
Thanks some feedback Bootie!
 

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@Nathangun do you play WWII Online? How is it?
I like it, tho the monthly fee turned me away after my first year.
The graphics are poor then and haven't changed still.
I played with a clan, the 22nd Mechanized. We did training missions so we could be better. The odd mission we did bombing rooms or navy missions.

The fact it took 50 odd days to fight the campaign and seeing a town/city turn to rubble was always a nice touch.

I bought it... played it then refunded it. :)

I found it hard to get a game. There was no team work.... and you had a fair distance to run to get into the battle only to die and have to run about 1km to get back in the battle.

I may revisit it in future.
The far distance from the spawn point to the battle lines was a chore, so you made sure there was a mobile spawn point near the attack objective before you joined or put one in place yourself (that might depend on your rank I think) or call on one of the clan members to for a lift, we took it turns.
 

Concord

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I have a sneaking suspicion that all of @Bootie's game reviews on Steam read "Got it. Didn't like it. Refunded it." :)

Most of mine would read "Got it on sale. Never played it."
 

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Initially was very interested in this game, but deciced to skip this one since all the original backers saying it basically turned into a bad Battlefield clone.
 

MeatEtr

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I'm still very interested. However, from reading the reviews, there are some problems.
Most of the negative reviews seem to be coming from early Kickstarter fans who have supported the game for years (money, testing, development suggestions).
The vision the developers and supporters had and were working towards has been gimped by a last minute change of publisher or developer.

They said that the game used to have big maps with lots of sectors to control, which lead to a more strategic maneuvering kind of play. It worked well.
At the last minute (just before alpha release) the maps were reduced significantly in size, leading to a more funnelled approach.
In addition, spawn points can now be placed very close to objectives, leading to an arcade-like rush in and respawn mentality.
The old backers say that the original thinking man's game has been replaced by a run-and-gun arcade style one.

Apparently things like the sound were excellent, and at the last minute have reverted to a very poor substitute.
Previously the quality was better, and you could also judge the distance and direction very well compared to the release.
Animations too have apparently taken a hit. Reasons to work as a team rather than lone-wolfing have taken a hit.

I can understand their disappointment in having so many great aspects of the game ruined, so late in the development.
It seems like a betrayal based on corporate interference, after they had helped it develop into something exceptional.
It sounds like the new publishers (or developers?) have catered to the lowest common denominator, trying to sell more copies to twitch-action kiddies.
I'm not convinced either way, but it is something to consider, particularly given the price tag. I'm on the fence.
Honestly, thats good news to me! At least in terms of the map sizes. Im a RO/Rising Storm/Rainbow Six Siege player, so prefer more medium to short range or CQB fights. Love the system they have in RS: Vietnam, squad leaders for US are mobile spawn points for the squad. While the Vietcong SLs dig tunnels for a spawn point (tunnels must be at least 30m away from OZ).

I do like huge maps too though, been playing Arma going all the way to Op Flashpoint. Played a good bit of Squad as well. It really sounds like there's two differing camps view or opinions on HLL, the one from Squad/Post Scriptum and the other being RO/Rising Storm. It seems the game leans more towards RO.

As for the kickstarter folks... who knows! People get too personally and monetarily invested in some games and when a dev goes a different route, they get pissed and trash it. Happens all the time. I've seen enough gameplay videos to know this definitely doesn't look like a run & gun arcade twitch game.

At any rate, I've seen and heard enough to know to let this one cook a little more and eventually grab it on sale someday!
 

Concord

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Well, as I expected, cheating has begun to creep into Hell Let Loose as well.

As one commenter said, this behaviour is starting to kill competitive online gaming. At least for him. I'm inclined to agree.
That said, the game footage looks so damn good, I'm thinking of going for it. At least the developers seem to be quick in reacting to the situation.

 

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Well, as I expected, cheating has begun to creep into Hell Let Loose as well.

As one commenter said, this behaviour is starting to kill competitive online gaming. At least for him. I'm inclined to agree.
That said, the game footage looks so damn good, I'm thinking of going for it. At least the developers seem to be quick in reacting to the situation.


I don't recall seeing one application of fire and manoeuvre in that entire video, which to me makes this game more of a 'run & gun' exercise than a combat simulator. I guess that's what it comes down to when individual 'soldiers' have all the information they require at a keypress to wage a one man war.

Things looked a bit more hopeful around the 13 minute mark, but still no one seemed to be controlling the squad or it's assets. The only command I heard was 'push forwards' which everyone was already doing by themselves.

I realise I sound like a grumpy old man, but it's such a shame that not one of these games really captures the confusion caused by the fog of war and that the requirement for effective leadership is absent.
 

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<snipped>
I realise I sound like a grumpy old man, but it's such a shame that not one of these games really captures the confusion caused by the fog of war and that the requirement for effective leadership is absent.
LOL. You sound like my kind of guy! :LOL:
Seriously, games which accomplish success through "run and gun" maneuvers teach fatal real life tactics.
 

Concord

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I don't recall seeing one application of fire and manoeuvre in that entire video, which to me makes this game more of a 'run & gun' exercise than a combat simulator. I guess that's what it comes down to when individual 'soldiers' have all the information they require at a keypress to wage a one man war.

Things looked a bit more hopeful around the 13 minute mark, but still no one seemed to be controlling the squad or it's assets. The only command I heard was 'push forwards' which everyone was already doing by themselves.

I realise I sound like a grumpy old man, but it's such a shame that not one of these games really captures the confusion caused by the fog of war and that the requirement for effective leadership is absent.
I hear what you're saying. The game definitely has its flaws like most of its type. The graphics and atmosphere tend to lure me in though. :)

Although, I wonder just how much an orderly command situation persists on a battlefield, from any time period.
In these types of games, even very good squad leadership only goes so far. Usually to the point where soldiers come under fire.

For example, an SL might give commands (in Post Scriptum) for the squad to move to an objective, using a route that makes use of cover.
Part way through the journey, they unexpectedly come under fire from somewhere in front (unidentified).
The SL could give a command that the guys in the centre fire ahead at possible cover locations, while the guys on the left start to circle around to flank.
But then someone is engaged on the right, and the left comes under fire from a sniper.
It quickly turns into chaos - and that's with all the benefits of in-game UI and a player not actually having his life threatened.

I've played matches with my Post Scriptum clan, where the leadership was very good.
Sometimes in a defensive match, you were assigned a sector to overwatch.
After 15 minutes of studying an empty field - while combat raged somewhere else on the line - it would start to get a little tiresome.

Or on the offensive, your SL would keep things tight fire-and-manoeuvre wise, only to be too achingly slow to reach a meet-up point.
Or despite keeping things tight, your squad is jumped time after time in different areas, losing half the members each contact.
And of course, with respawns staggered as men fall, it ends up being a snail trail of guys returning to the front, with all cohesion lost.

And sometimes it's actually better to allow the individuals some slack in these situations. Players start getting creative, and it is quite effective.

Despite all the troubles and mess, it can still be fun to play. Those moments where you are running alongside your squad mates in a cohesive group are like something from a movie or a long distant memory. Quite a sight to behold.
 
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