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I am curious what you guys think on this topic.

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Guest
I have been watching shows on the internet about boarder security, USA, Canada, Australia etc. It seems that people get refused entry because of past convictions in different areas of crimes. This is done even if a person has been a good citizen for years after committing the crime.
I guess my question is; "When is a crime paid for? If ever? " A person does their time to pay back society and then even after that they have to pay more?
As some of you know I volunteer at one of our Federal Prisons here in Canada and this question arises in my mind on how inmates get treated in our society in general even after years of being good and or clean as they say.
What do you guys think on this?

Thanks
wayne (Numberz)
 
I´d say it should depend on how severe a crime you had comitted.
But I´m all in favour of keeping various violent offenders out of ones country.
 
I say it depends on the honesty of the concerned human. If he really changed his mind after his sentence is served he shouldn´t handled as a criminal anymore. The problem is how can I be sure he has changed?

Greetings :)
 
The problem is how can I be sure he has changed?



Thats the problem. You can´t be sure if the individual won´t snap and start stabbing people again.
So i say leave em knocking on the door.
 
mTk said:
You, undoubtedly, have a specific point(s) in mind so some details would be helpful before putting my foot in mouth. o_O
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No I do not have anything in particular in mind...I didn't know you could get your foot up to you mouth. ;)

Wastemoreland said:
I´d say it should depend on how severe a crime you had committed.
But I´m all in favour of keeping various violent offenders out of ones country.
Click to expand...

You are right on ....different countries seem to vary as to how serious a crime has to be to be bared from entry.

Sempai said:
I say it depends on the honesty of the concerned human. If he really changed his mind after his sentence is served he shouldn´t handled as a criminal anymore. The problem is how can I be sure he has changed?
Greetings :)
Click to expand...

Your struggle in thought is as mine. I have seen murders change and are doing well in society but this particular crime can prevent entry into it seems all western countries. ( If declared)

The problem is how can one be sure of the changed man/woman?
May be if one is clean/good for 5 years? 10 years? after paying your debt to society.
 
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All depends on the crime in my opinion. Drug users being barred from entering the USA etc is a bit rubbish... folk can reform from that but murderers on the other hand... once you have stepped over that line and taken a life you cant step back onto the right side of the law. That line has been broken... and could very well be broken again.
 
Bootie said:
All depends on the crime in my opinion. Drug users being barred from entering the USA etc is a bit rubbish... folk can reform from that but murderers on the other hand... once you have stepped over that line and taken a life you cant step back onto the right side of the law. That line has been broken... and could very well be broken again.
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So murder is your line...what about sex offenders? Rapist? These two crimes are mental disorders( Way harder to reform, I know men in prison that know they should never be let out due to this type of crime ) where as murders can be just a crime of passion a one time off thing and one would never be in that situation again to repeat offend.
 
Didnt realise you wanted a list I was just highlighting the extremes.

How do you know the perpetrator of a crime of passion would never be in that situation again.... pretty broad brush stroke that. They killed someone, I wouldn't even run the risk of them 'perhaps' being reformed.
 
Bootie said:
Didnt realise you wanted a list I was just highlighting the extremes.

How do you know the perpetrator of a crime of passion would never be in that situation again.... pretty broad brush stroke that. They killed someone, I wouldn't even run the risk of them 'perhaps' being reformed.
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No Bootie don't get me wrong I do not want a list necessarily...and yes it is a broad brush stroke. Murders/ Lifers as they call themselves in the prison are according to stats Canada least likely to re offend of all the different crimes. I can speak from my experience talking to all types in there, murders are the least of society's concern. I would venture out on a limb and say I would prefer one of them as a neighbour then some of the other cut throats and thieves.

I guess we all have a line that is acceptable and what is not and I guess varies as much as our countries boarder agencies.
 
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If nations would implement the death penalty again. Then perhaps this wouldn´t be a debate ;)
 
I´m no friend of the death penalty so long as there is no way to be absolutely sure about the guilt and what leaded to that guilt/action. If that could be solved I´m for a system similar as in some countries always is used. You have lets say 3 chances. If that chances are wasted You will be brought to death. One would have to think over in which cases that modus operandi is used. For murder? For theft? For crimes of need? And so on. I personally wouldn´t fix it on a special crime in general but more if the crime is not compensable and if it was done in affect or by a not changeable habit. First if both parameters could answered without doubt with "yes" the death penalty would come into game. But let me stress that one more time! The guilt and the reasons for the crime have to be absolutely veryfiable. And that is not possible so far as I know. At least not with the current means.

Greetings :)
 
Keeping people out of country because of past crimes especially after years of being clean is just silly. I can see if the crime was one that took the person across boarders to begin with...that one is common sense I guess. I believe crimes that would boarder on mental disorders, IE. sex crimes and the like, would be another types to have very intense study done on individuals before letting them in.

The death penalty does not solve any problems...look at the good old USA, the states that have death penalty still have high crime rates. As shown here in Canada that the police work to convict a person is not always up to snuff. A few here have had life sentences only to be let out because they were wrongfully convicted. These guys would of been put to death before their innocence was found out if a death penalty was around.
 
Im against the death penalty. It just lowers us to the level of the guilty party and who are we to play God.

And as for sexual offenders just having a mental condition... well I dont buy that either. And even if it did it has been said that no one has yet found a way through therapy to stop people from committing sexual assault.

You seem to be defending sex offenders (is that the demographic you have been working with)... by stating it is a mental health issue. In some cases yes but not all and at the end of the day it is still a crime that deserves punishment. The line between right and wrong is very clear and the person perpetrating said crimes must know the difference between right and wrong despite the mental affliction... if they have any mental affliction at all.
 
Bootie said:
And as for sexual offenders just having a mental condition... well I dont buy that either. And even if it did it has been said that no one has yet found a way through therapy to stop people from committing sexual assault.

You seem to be defending sex offenders (is that the demographic you have been working with)... by stating it is a mental health issue. In some cases yes but not all and at the end of the day it is still a crime that deserves punishment. The line between right and wrong is very clear and the person perpetrating said crimes must know the difference between right and wrong despite the mental affliction... if they have any mental affliction at all.
Click to expand...

I am not defending sex offenders I am harder on them them others. I believe sex offenders are more prone to mental disorders then say murders.

I deal with all types of crimes, murders, bank robbers, drug dealers, drunk driving charges, sex offenders and you name it.

Here is how I see it with criminals and I am no shrink. There are 2 types of murders---1] The one off types, crime of passion or in a situation that would never happen again. 2] the nut jobs like our Paul Benardo types of serial killers who should never see the light of day and the likes of which I have not met yet or wish to. These are the types that do not have all their oars in the water. These have major mental disorders.

In regards to sex offenders these fall into many categories and one should not be to hasty to jump to conclusions. The range is huge from the total nut job who should be castrated to the guy accused by his x-girlfriend or wife as a trump card to get his ass in jail with a lie.
Other then the falsely accused ( and there is a few ever where) they suffer from mental illnesses of some sort.

I will say this after talking to hundreds of different guys in many different crimes, they all hate sex offenders and this is because 80-90% of the guys have had things happen to them at young ages by sex offenders. I could not believe that the percentage is that high but once they are comfortable with you and know your there for their well being they open up. There is a lot hurt that happens when a sex offender offends, and the damage lasts for years and years. I would say worst then murders.

The scariest are the short timers...drug dealers and the like they have no honour or loyalty or code as they say. These pose the most future harm to society as a whole.

There is a snap shot of what I see and deal with as a volunteer in a minimum security prison. I spend 8 hours a week teach and mentoring groups and individuals.
Are they redeemable?
I hope so or I am wasting my time, and my faith compels me to to forgive. If God can forgive all sins (big and small) then who am I not to? Don't get me wrong it is easier for God to forgive then me. After all I am only human. ;)
 
Back to the question .... Should past criminals be allowed to travel freely around the world if they wish? These are the people that have done their time and paid society back.

May be i should make it a poll and see how that works?
 
Still find it hard to digest what your saying about sex offenders. Other than the falsely accused they all suffer from mental illness of some sort. Are you aware how ridiculous that quote sounds?

Im stepping out of the coversation at this point because such sweeping generalisations perplex me despite the majority of your post hitting the nail on the head.
 
Bootie said:
Still find it hard to digest what your saying about sex offenders. Other than the falsely accused they all suffer from mental illness of some sort. Are you aware how ridiculous that quote sounds?

Im stepping out of the coversation at this point because such sweeping generalisations perplex me despite the majority of your post hitting the nail on the head.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input...
My point on those people that are sex offenders is they must suffer some amount of personal mental dis-function due to having the need of the hormonal rush or whatever they get off on and are unable to control those urges. I now some that are on drugs in prison to control such urges. ( That at their request to the prison) ...they know they are out of control in that area of their life. Unlike some murders that may of ended up in a bad situation once.
 
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