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PoorOldSpike said:
A big step to achieving peace would be if the United Nations told Israel to give Palestine back to the Palestinians..[/I]
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Who are the Palestinians? It's not like Israel invaded the Nation of Palestine and overthrew a duly elected government. The long time head of the so called Palestinian people, Yassir Arafat was an Egyptian, born and raised in Cairo. The people who occupied the land that is now Israel were nothing but nomadic tribes of Arabs who surely did not call themselves Palestinians until the rest of the Arab world created the "Palestinian problem" as a rallying cry against Israel.

Don't get me wrong, Israel bears plenty of the blame for the chaos that is the Middle East, but the "Palestinian Problem" is nothing but a creation of the Arabs to try and curry favor in the rest of the world in their struggle against Israel.
 
PoorOldSpike said:
Whoa, it's not scientific to dismiss his claim without at least examining it..;)
For example If we regard the universe as a vast delicate web in which we're all embedded, things begin to fall into place...
Webs are very fragile things and although the normal state of the web is stable, it may begin jangling when people radiate nonchristian vibes.
For example a billion muslims praying to false god Allah may trigger an earthquake or tsunami, floods,tornadoes, hurricanes etc ANYWHERE in the world..
And every time an atheist says 'there's no God', it may trigger a birth defect in a womb somewhere..
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If these premises were true, than we might talk about that.
They are not, it's totally unimportant...

PoorOldSpike said:
...........and if we break those unseen laws of the universe, we bring catastrophe down on our heads..
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Yes, but not like this.
Laws of the Universe has nothing in common with people....They do, actually, but those are not moral or any other similar laws. More like laws of physics...
 
POS quote- For example a billion muslims praying to false god Allah may trigger an earthquake or tsunami, floods,tornadoes, hurricanes etc ANYWHERE in the world..
And every time an atheist says 'there's no God', it may trigger a birth defect in a womb somewhere..

Zaraza reply- If these premises were true, than we might talk about that.
They are not, it's totally unimportant...

POS response-Where's your scientific evidence for saying they're not true?
Look at it another way- The 'Matrix' films blend reality and illusion,and the word 'Matrix' is even found 5 times in the Bible..
And Einstein said ""Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one''
You see, 'reality' may not be as fixed and rigid as we think, but can be distorted and flexed. We could even say that Jesus was a Master of the Art of reality-bending (his 'miracles')..:)
Look at the picture below, our eyes and brain tell us the wheels are moving, yet in reality they're stationary.
The moral?- what is real and what is not real in this crazy universe?

wheels.jpg
 
PoorOldSpike said:
POS response-Where's your scientific evidence for saying they're not true?
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I read about real scientific experiments where power of pray was questioned. Praying show no impact on real world.
Anyway, this is the bad question.
If you claim that prayer effects are real world effects, then you must prove that prays DO work.
Otherwise you can just talk anything you think of and claim that's the reason for something else.
Like...look, there is a bird shitting. It just disbalanced universe laws, so earthquake will hit Haiti.
 
Instead of thinking about prayer, think about 'mindset' and 'good and bad vibrations' affecting 'reality'.
For example when Jesus went into a house to bring a dead girl back to life, her relatives began mocking him, so he had to clear them and their bad vibes out of the room before he could bring her back.
And the bible also says that in some towns he was unable to do any great things there "because of their unbelief".
You see, peoples bad vibes disrupted and sabotaged him.
The psychologist Gertrude Schmeidler did a series of famous 'Goats and Sheep' experiments that proved open-minded people could 'bend reality' better than close-minded unbelieving skeptics.
She said- "This was inexplicable by the physical laws we knew; it implied unexplored processes in the universe, an exciting new field for research"

http://www.parapsych.org/members/g_schmeidler.html
 
PoorOldSpike said:
Instead of thinking about prayer, think about 'mindset' and 'good and bad vibrations' affecting 'reality'.
For example when Jesus went into a house to bring a dead girl back to life, her relatives began mocking him, so he had to clear them and their bad vibes out of the room before he could bring her back.
And the bible also says that in some towns he was unable to do any great things there "because of their unbelief".
You see, peoples bad vibes disrupted and sabotaged him.
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Maybe they were just pain in the ass....Modern surgeon, engineer or POS playing CM, also does not want bunch of creeps sits around him and making jokes....
 
Incidentally i used to hang in another CM club a few years ago and when the job of 'Assistant Moderator' came up, i applied for it, so did a few other members.
The Chief Mod said "I shall pray to God to help me choose the right candidate"
He then chose somebody else instead of me, I suppose Satan whispered in his ear "Don't choose POS!", and he thought it was God's voice, duh..:)
Incidentally the new guy turned out to be a disaster and i had personality clashes with him which culminated with him talking the Chief Mod into banning me for 3 months, but I packed my bags and walked out permanently..:)

I only mention the story because it shows how prayer is dangerous if people use it to let God make all their decisions for them, instead of using their own commonsense.
The worst example of this i've ever seen is a middle-aged christian evangelist in my old home town of Leicester, i've known him for years and his life is a total disaster; his phone, gas and electricity keeps getting cut off because he doesn't pay the bills; he's been up court twice for non-payment of his poll tax, both his marriages have failed over the years,(including unplanned pregnancies) and he's the sloppiest most disorganised ill-disciplined person I know, a terrible example as a "christian".
That's because he goes through life trusting completely in God all the time instead of lifting a finger to help himself, he's like mindless robot.
i've tried to tell him to TAKE COMMAND of his own life, but he won't listen, his attitude is-"whatever happens to me is God's will, i put myself entirely in his hands"
What a dickhead, i pointed out this verse to him- "For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and of selfdiscipline" (2 Tim 1:7) but he still won't listen.
So I no longer return his phone calls or answer his letters, he's OUT..;)
 
PS- Coincidentally i've just seen the Hudson River ditching video and it ties in with what I said in my previous post about taking command of our own lives-

The co-pilot was flying the plane to start with, then they hit the birds and both engines lost power. At that point the Captain could have said to him -"Okay, do the best you can, I trust you completely", and just sat back and let the co-pilot get on with it.
But he DIDN'T just sit back, instead he immediately took control from the co-pilot with the words "My aircraft!"
Even then the Captain could have just trusted in God and stopped thinking for himself, but he DIDN'T stop thinking, and began considering all his options- Reignition,Emergency Handbook,Auxiliary Power Unit, alternative airports etc, and eventually did a successful ditching.

The moral?- life is like that flight, it's fine to trust in God, but remember WE'RE in the pilot's seat at all times, not him..;)
(In fact an old military axiom says much the same thing- "Trust in God, but keep your powder dry!")
 
Basically prayer serves a couple of purposes-

1- Power Download.
Just a few words mumbled now and again when we're knackered such as "Jesus remember me" is enough to log us onto God and give us an immediate power download to buck us up.That's what nonchristians can't understand, christianity WORKS like it says on the box, which is why it's become the biggest religion on the planet.
".. our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power.." (1 Thess 1:5)
"My Christian faith has been such a backbone through so many difficult times,for me Christianity is about being strengthened"- Bear Grylls
http://www.alphafriends.org/news/bear-grylls-my-faith-quite-simple

2- Reality-bending
Prayer for those who are ill or in danger is a kind of thought-pressure that can affect this illusion we call 'reality'.
"You can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done"-Jesus in Matt 21:21
Of course prayer effects are usually much more subtle and might go unseen until they kick in days, weeks, months or even years down the line.

'Reality' can also be regarded as a 'dream' as well as an illusion, and dreams can be manipulated by thought-pressure (prayer)..

"You can be in my dream if i can be in your dream" -Bob Dylan
"Strawberry Fields...nothing is real" - The Beatles

"Our revels now are ended. These our actors,
As I foretold you, were all spirits and are melted into air, into thin air;
And, like the baseless fabric of this vision,
The cloud capped towers, the gorgeous palaces,
The solemn temples, the great globe itself,
Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve,
And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, leave not a rack behind.
We are such stuff as dreams are made on,
and our little life is rounded with a sleep"
- The Tempest
 
Islam is a FAKE religion made up combining fragments of Christian and Jew religion and the only purpose it served was to organise the nomad tribes and to gain power expanding by the power of sword.
Not many things have changed since then.The muslims still dreaming of a Muslim world without any other religion present.
To do so they will not hesitate to use any means available.
I say that they can build all the mosques they want in their lands and leave Europe alone.
As for the Jews they seem to have short memory as lots of the practices of the past that they were condemned by the vast majority of the civilised world are still being used today against the Muslims of the region.
 
The best thing that can be said about Islam is that it fully acknowledges Jesus existed and was a prophet and miracle worker, even though they don't believe he was Son of God..;)

[Koran 2.253] "We have made some of these apostles to excel the others, among them are they to whom Allah spoke, and some of them He exalted by many degrees of rank; and We gave clear miracles to Isa (Jesus) son of Marium (Mary), and strengthened him with the holy spirit.."
 
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