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Regular British/Commonwealth Infantry

S

Skycaptain987

Guest
Hi guys,

Looking for some advice: I love Combat Mission Battle for Normandy and I love all the British kit like Bren carriers and Cromwells etc. But I cannot for the life of me get on with regular British/Canadian/Polish Infantry! The single Sten and Bren just don't give a section very good firepower and when bumping into the better-armed Germans in bocage country, they tend to drop like flies.

I have come to the conclusion that I can't use them the same way as Germans or Americans and so would appreciate some more experienced input on how to use them best.

Cheers
 
From my experience a British/Commonwealth force needs to be used in a combined style with Sections and Platoons supporting each other so ultimately they can apply more fire than the Germans. You're unlikely to win an evenly matched section v section fight so you have to bring more firepower (can be men, armour, arty etc.) to the specific engagement area.

An example; you 'Find' a German section with scouts. The whole Platoon maneuvers two sections to put down suppressive fire to try and prevent Jerry from moving then the third section maneuvers to get a better attack angle. If it's a larger German force you need to maneuver and apply a larger still British force.

The 2 1/2 inch mortar is also a great force multiplier but it is hampered by the low ammo availability. I nearly always use 'target light' for target orders, sometimes putting a 15 sec pause before the order so they put down only 1 or 2 mortars before the end of the turn to give an opportunity to asses their effectiveness and end the fire at the next order phase. This helps reduce mortar wastage on dead targets and extends the use of the mortar.

Not sure if any of that helps you. I'm sure there are others who can provide their perspective :)

The video series HERE follows the British during Operation Epsom. It doesn't have specific guidance but it may give some insight into using the British and Commonwealth forces.
 
As @DoubleD mentioned above the British mortars are key in my view. Based on my experience in the game they are highly effective/accurate. The Italians have something similar with more ammo but they do not seem to be as effective as the British version.
 
The Italian mortars have a much flatter trajectory than the British ones, but make up for it somewhat with far more ammunition. Don't underestimate the value of smoke on the 2 inch mortars either.

Also if you're lucky, and a little bit cheeky, a 2 inch mortar is capable of killing an open topped vehicle. :devilish:
 
Find the enemy, use your 2 inch mortar to either smoke the approach or keep the enemy pinned. Split an assault team from your section and use them to get to the grenade range. If the rest of the section can be split, use your Bren light machine-gun to suppress the enemy position, but you are most likely going to see some kills from the Bren, because it is one of the most accurate lmg's, if not the most accurate. The third team created by splitting the section (if it is possible) should be kept near the Bren to feed it ammo and provide security.
 
Here's a follow up question in regards to Commonwealth infantry: when there's no PIAT in the squad, what exactly does the guy with the anti-tank label have in regards to equipment that is anti-tank?

cwat.jpg
 
Although it's not shown as additional equipment, I believe AT troops are given a number of AT grenades such as the Gammon bomb, 'sticky' bombs, or the Hawkins grenade. They show up in the grenade counter, but not differentiated from regular grenades.
In practice you still need to get your troops within throwing distance of a tank, but if they use one you will see a distinctly larger explosion than a regular grenade.


After some research it seems I was mistaken about a few things, AT troops are given AT grenades but they do not show up on the grenade counter at all. They also have the same visual effect as regular grenades.
Whether they are any more effective than regular grenades... hard to know. :unsure:

Combat Mission Battle For Normandy Screenshot 2020.07.19 - 11.26.40.14.png

Granted I only checked on CMBN, newer titles might be modelled differently. I'll have a look at CMFI after breakfast, stay tuned!
 
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The Brit TOE just excels in defensive warfare. Their infantry battalions come with 6 AT guns and a bunch of 3 inch mortars with lots of ammo. Their infantry battalions also have FOUR companies of infantry.

Lot of Brit AFVs come with 17 pounder cannons. And Churchill tanks are tough on both offense and defense with tough armor and enough MG ammo to area fire for an entire game.

Brit infantry do lack firepower (historically accurate) but they are cheap and you can buy a lot of them. Use Brit snipers too. Organic snipers are ridiculously (unrealistically?) cheap in Combat Mission. PIATs can also be fired from inside buildings without suppressing people in the buildings.

I never feel at a loss playing the Brits, especially on defense.
 
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DoubleD said:
The 2 1/2 inch mortar is also a great force multiplier but it is hampered by the low ammo availability. I nearly always use 'target light' for target orders, sometimes putting a 15 sec pause before the order so they put down only 1 or 2 mortars before the end of the turn to give an opportunity to asses their effectiveness and end the fire at the next order phase. This helps reduce mortar wastage on dead targets and extends the use of the mortar.
Click to expand...

Does it really work this way? In my experience, a Pause order only delays movement, not fire. I've just tested it for the 2in mortar, they will fire from the start of the turn with no regard to the Pause order.
Apart from Target Light, another option to reduce ammo consumption is the Target Briefly order. Press the button repeatedly to increase the duration of fire in 15-second increments.
 
@Nemesis I guess the problem is that many people don't play full Battalion sized games therefore don't receive the benefits of the entire 'package' as it were.
I do agree that the British/Commonwealth forces are somewhat lacking in their infantry anti-tank capability, I meantioned it recently in another thread that I view the PIAT as being the weakest of the three portable AT weapons, Panzershreck comes first, great range, decent accuracy (nailed a tank at 197m in one of my recent games!), extremely powerful charge. Downsides are it has a backblast that can be seen from space, so tends to be detrimental to the health of the carrier if he sticks around too long.
Bazooka is more or less a smaller Panzershreck. (I don't play the USA much, so don't have as much experience using them.)
PIAT, shortest range, fairly inaccurate, historically the rounds had a reputation for not triggering on impact or other issues, but from what I've seen in game when they hit they tend to knock out the tank. Another upside is they're very stealthy, you can pop off multiple rounds without a tank even realising it.

That aside, I very much enjoy playing Brit/Commonwealth forces, although they have weak IAT assets, the other upsides that you mentioned more than make up for it - cheap snipers, 2 inch mortar is incredibly versatile, 17 pounder is scary good (perhaps even a little too good?), cheap air power thanks to being on the Allied side. Just my thoughts on the matter. :)
 
Some results from my weapons tests (still in progress but getting closer every day!) to see where the British rifle platoon stands. Not completely terrible when recalculated per QB purchase point at this distance - comparable to U.S. Armored Infantry or German Grenadiers. But yeah, use them with caution.
I'm testing from 40 to 312 m ... more in the final report!

CMBN_160m.png
CMBN_160m_perQB.png
ERROR IN THE TITLE OF THE SECOND CHART - IT'S AT 160 M AS WELL.
 
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The Bren doesn't sound so dangerous when it fires, but I find it often scores hits. Whereas with the German LMGs it's the other way around.. it sounds more dangerous than it really is. Not saying the Bren is better than the LMG42, but that is quite capable. Bren carriers are also good - at least in the Normandy setting.
 
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Great stuff. Thanks chaps. From the charts, I'm surprised to see the Paras doing so well with, the few rifles they have.

I'll play around with them and see what i can do with the 2" mortars. I haven't paid them much attention.
 
Skycaptain987 said:
From the charts, I'm surprised to see the Paras doing so well with, the few rifles they have.
Click to expand...
For the Paras it's the marksman. If you lose him, the red part of the column is gone - for good. Even if a teammate recovers the rifle, he can't match the marksman in handling it.
Also, the chart doesn't take into account that SMG's run out of ammo quite fast.
 
Stafford said:
@Nemesis I guess the problem is that many people don't play full Battalion sized games therefore don't receive the benefits of the entire 'package' as it were.
I do agree that the British/Commonwealth forces are somewhat lacking in their infantry anti-tank capability, I meantioned it recently in another thread that I view the PIAT as being the weakest of the three portable AT weapons, Panzershreck comes first, great range, decent accuracy (nailed a tank at 197m in one of my recent games!), extremely powerful charge. Downsides are it has a backblast that can be seen from space, so tends to be detrimental to the health of the carrier if he sticks around too long.
Bazooka is more or less a smaller Panzershreck. (I don't play the USA much, so don't have as much experience using them.)
PIAT, shortest range, fairly inaccurate, historically the rounds had a reputation for not triggering on impact or other issues, but from what I've seen in game when they hit they tend to knock out the tank. Another upside is they're very stealthy, you can pop off multiple rounds without a tank even realising it.

That aside, I very much enjoy playing Brit/Commonwealth forces, although they have weak IAT assets, the other upsides that you mentioned more than make up for it - cheap snipers, 2 inch mortar is incredibly versatile, 17 pounder is scary good (perhaps even a little too good?), cheap air power thanks to being on the Allied side. Just my thoughts on the matter. :)
Click to expand...

It is true that the Brits get most of their firepower from heavy weapons and not from small arms.

However, you need not buy a whole battalion to get 81mm mortars, 17 pounders, etc.. You can have a company-sized battle where your company is a "miniaturized battalion."

I just played a small battle with the Brits and had plenty of heavy weapons.
 
Drifter Man said:
Some results from my weapons tests (still in progress but getting closer every day!) to see where the British rifle platoon stands. Not completely terrible when recalculated per QB purchase point at this distance - comparable to U.S. Armored Infantry or German Grenadiers. But yeah, use them with caution.
I'm testing from 40 to 312 m ... more in the final report!
Click to expand...

Interesting graphs. From your graphs, it appears that the riflemen generally can have killing power as good as or almost as good as the LMG(s). This could be represented with three bars side by side for each type for each type of platoon.

I find it is often hard to get an entire team to have LOS on an enemy position. Was this done on flat terrain? What was the LOS like for all of the platoon members?
 
Hardradi said:
I find it is often hard to get an entire team to have LOS on an enemy position. Was this done on flat terrain? What was the LOS like for all of the platoon members?
Click to expand...

As I understand it, he bases the graphs on numbers he crunches by a large volume of tests where he isolates individual weapons. Then he builds the graphs for the platoons by multiplying by the numbers of troops carrying each weapon. So you end up with an idealised situation where a whole platoon has full LOS.
 
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