A new modern campaign?

Lethaface

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I've got it! The narrative story for the campaign.

The rival factions are the sinister Rothschild Illuminati and a diabolical cabal of mega corporations called McMonsanto, who are desperately sending in their private armies to retrieve a fabled object from a crashed alien ship, which can extend life by a thousand years (and penis size by several inches).

Both sides are desperate for the object because their leaders are advanced in years and have small penises. No expense will be spared. The soldiers in their private armies have been grown in underground labs. Just slightly DNA enhanced, they are bigger, tougher, and meaner than regular big tough mean guys and they are paid much higher than standard hourly rates.

Which private mercenary army will win? Which CEO's will live for a thousand years with remarkable appendages...and rule the world? YOU decide!

Too much?
Mercenary Private Big Class reporting for duty! :cool:;)
 

Concord

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Having a look at the TOE for the modern stuff, compared to WW2 stuff.

Seems that the formations are generally classed as Battalion size, but contain a wide variety of gear and vehicles, including AA 'MANPADS'.
There are no pure infantry units - only mechanized! I suppose you could delete the vehicles in a quick battle, but why would you.
And the carriers look like they are heavily armed! Autocannons, AT missiles, automatic grenade launchers, smoke grenades and machine guns.

The armoured groups are a little more recognizable to me, but I see that the Tank Battalion Tactical Group has a little infantry with them.
I see also that there are Mech Infantry Battalions listed in the armoured section of purchasing.

Seems almost a shame to break these full formations up into companies, but I suppose it could be done.
 
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Concord

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It seems easier to group units in my WW2 setting campaign (but it's probably just my unfamiliarity with the modern TOE).
In my WW2 campaign, you've got infantry companies and armoured companies basically.
I decided (somewhat arbitrarily) to make a split for each side consisting of 6 infantry battalions and 3 armoured battalions.

With the armour in the modern setting so much more powerful (and vulnerable??) I wonder if that kind of split would be wise or even realistic.
I'm almost tempted to look at a mainly infantry based campaign, with only the carriers as support.
 
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Lethaface

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There are several combined taskforce / BTG / etc formations. For example; 2 mech platoon and 1 tank platoon as the main element, scout platoon and weapons platoon / artillery battery al under one TF commander. Call it a standardised kampfgruppe ;-)
 

Concord

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I see there is a similar range of calibres available for artillery, ranging from the humble 80mm mortar batteries up to monsters.
Is artillery much more fast and accurate in the modern setting?

What about air support. Jets, attack helicopters, drones. Sheesh.
 

holoween

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I see there is a similar range of calibres available for artillery, ranging from the humble 80mm mortar batteries up to monsters.
Is artillery much more fast and accurate in the modern setting?
Syrian arty 15-20 min til first spotting round and then quite some correcting without trp
Best Blue arty 4min and 2-3 spotting rounds untill mission without trp
 

Lethaface

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Syrian arty 15-20 min til first spotting round and then quite some correcting without trp
Best Blue arty 4min and 2-3 spotting rounds untill mission without trp
With a dedicated FO with laser range finder and or from a FIST vehicle (or similar), I think even 2 min is possible. Now combine that with a drone and precision munitions, and you can have up to 3 deadly accurate 155mm shells coming in 2 minute without LOS or spotting rounds required.

Modern is / can be deadly.

Syrian artillery is indeed more like the WW2 call in times, or worse.
 

Rico

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I see there is a similar range of calibres available for artillery, ranging from the humble 80mm mortar batteries up to monsters.
Is artillery much more fast and accurate in the modern setting?

What about air support. Jets, attack helicopters, drones. Sheesh.
When I was testing for my fictional CMBS campaign (and that was Ukrainian vs Russian kit) -- full blown combined arms conventional fighting will burn through units at a frightening pace.
 

Gnarly

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Those heavily armed carriers tend to quite literally go KABOOM when touched by anything 25mm or heavier...... Which modern day infantry are perfectly capable of administering out at some distance, depending on their military funding.

Re airpower: yes its all very sexy, until your target rolls out a Tunguska or two..... then they are just pretty fireballs....
 

Concord

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When I was testing for my fictional CMBS campaign (and that was Ukrainian vs Russian kit) -- full blown combined arms conventional fighting will burn through units at a frightening pace.
How were you planning on handling the unit compositions and the casualty counting (in a nutshell) @Rico?

My current thinking is large 2km zones, with matching CMBS maps, and allowing both sides to occupy and reinforce.
Stacking limit maybe 2 battalions per side? But that could make for enormous battles. Maybe too big?

I could make each counter represent a battalion rather than a company like in BB.
Smaller overall campaign map, with more of a focus on force compositions rather than maneuvering like in BB.

Hmm, undecided. My thinking is based on keeping the modern battalions as a unit, but there's no reason they couldn't be handled on company level.
 

Rico

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This was one method...

Quick explanation on how casualties and strength levels work in the units.

The basic parent formation is the Battalion Task Group (either tank or mech infantry) ... the main combat counters represent a company at either full strength, two-thirds or one-third strength.

Smaller support counters represent platoon-sized units like Anti-tank (ATGM), air defense, engineers, mortar and recon units -- they only have 1 strength level.

There is also the Btn HQ group and the organic Artillery Group -- usually 2 batteries of 122mm or 152mm SP Guns which can fire in support over 3 hexes range.

Here an example of a Russian Tank Btn Task Group and it shoes how a mixed tank company's OOB is reduced as it loses strength points.



Each Company or platoon support unit has been listed as to personnel and vehicle strength.

All formations break down into threes and thirds quite well.

If a company (3 strength point) unit sustains 34%+ casualties, it loses a strength point.

If the same company sustains 67%+ casualties, it loses 2 strength points.

If the same company loses 83%+ it is destroyed.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If a company starts a battle with 2 strength points -- it loses 1 strength point if suffering 51%+ casualties.

If a company starts a battle with 2 strength points -- it is eliminated if suffering 76%+ casualties.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Any units with just one strength point (1/3 strength companies or platoon support units) are eliminated if suffereing 51%+ casualties.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Overall casualties are worked out by averaging out the casualty percentages between vehicles and personnel in a unit. (guns as well in the case of mortar units)

For example, if in a battle, a unit loses 6 out of 10 vehicles (60%) and 38 out of 100 troops (38%) -- the overall casualty rate works out to 49% .
If this unit had started out as a full strength (3 strength points) company, it would be reduced to 2 strength points.

It's s system where a quick count at the end of a battle and a quick comparison with a sheet listing vehicle and personnel strengths allows for quick, rounded up (or down) adjustments to strengths on the counters without keeping track of all units and men.

Hope this makes sense -- it's quite simple, but a little hard to explain.
 

Rico

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Here description when I switched to using a zone system...

Here a hopefully coherent explanation of the Borscht Wars Zone combat system concept:

Each sector of a ZONE facing another adjacent enemy held ZONE is known as a FRONT and must be designed at least a company-sized unit to defend.

Each "BRIGADE" is made up of an HQ, Companies, Artillery Unit and support platoons (represented by the smaller counters, colour-coded to indicate which Brigade they belong to).
In the example below, the Chomsk Rifles consist of the following:
HQ unit (contains a Btn HQ, extra artillery spotters and air controllers)
3x Motor Rifle (BTR) Companies of: 3x Rifle Pltns, 1x Hvy Weapons Pltn, (all mounted in BTR APC's), 1x pltn of 3x tanks
Support units:
1x battery of 6x 122mm SP Howitzers
1x recon Platoon
1x anti-Tank pltn (ATGM & recoiless guns)
1x hvy mortar platoon (6x 120mm mortars)
1x engineer platoon
1x MANPADS platoon (hand-held SAM )

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In the above example, the Guards Tank Brigade attacks from ZIN'KIV into ORANY, defended by the enemy Chomsk Rifles, which defend this sector of the front with their 1st Company, supported by the MANPADS and Anti-Tank platoons.
(support platoons are indicated to be "attached" to a company or HQ by being placed up against the larger unit counter)

Also, a flight of 2x HIND attack helicopters has been assigned to this zone in support, and the Chomsk Rifles artillery is firing across the river from MISHIK in support.
Also, the 3rd Company has been released from Reserve and should arrive as reinforcements at the 20 minute mark of the 40 minute CMBS battle.

The attacking enemy force consists of 1st Company, Guards Tank Brigade with the Brigade HQ in support (this provides extra spotter/air controllers -- each company usually has one of each assigned automatically) and the battery of 6x 122mm howitzers -- also attached are the Guards Brigade's MANPADS pltn, Engineer pltn and a battery of 3x Tunguska AA vehicles.
Air support comes in the shape of one flight of 2x attack helicopters and two flights of 2x Frogfoot light attack aircraft.

the 2nd Company, Guards Tank Brigade are in reserve and will be able to move into ORANY after the battle should the enemy withdraw or the battle be inconclusive and the ZONE become CONTESTED (more on how that works a little later)

The CMBS map will probably be wooded farmland with possibly a small village, possibly including a stretch of the Derashnaya - Makariv highway.

It is assumed that all ZONES contain minor roads and bridges/fords, so the roads on the map represent major highways and bridges that would facilitate faster movement and supply.
 

Rico

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I had forgotten that mad a bunch of unit insignia mods for the various units on both sides as well ... no idea where these are anymore (don't actually have CMBS installed at the moment)

As political tensions rise on Borscht, both sides are pictured during army exercises...

Below, recently issued Oplot Tanks in action. They are from the Chomsk Army's first line tank formation, the Chomsk Cavalry Brigade, a regular Tank Battalion Task Group.







On the Kurgan side, journalists were also allowed to observe the regular army Black Star Brigade during exercises ... T-90 tank in a city street...




...and a column of mechanised infantry at halt in a small village outside of the town of Chelny.



Here a shot from the "Eastern" country army which will fight with Russian kit... ("Western" army will have Ukrainian kit -- maybe some US "advisors')

BMP-2's and T-72's of the Iron Fist Battalion...




Two T-90's from the Guards Tank Battalion Group with the 'Black Star' insignia.

 

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Vartuoosi

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Since you have a military background, thought you might add your two cents? ;D
Right, well with the only info being defend the area pictured with a platoon against indeterminate enemy my go to solution would be to figure out multiple fallback positions and covered/concealed routes between those and do a shoot and run kinda delay action. Basically when the enemy shows up in your kill zone open fire then quickly disengage before they can retaliate and get to the next set of positions, rinse and repeat. Wear down the enemy while preserving friendly troops and make them waste time and ammo on already vacated positions. If a more firm stand is required designate some place/area as the "Alamo" where the delaying action culminates in a proper defensive action.

full blown combined arms conventional fighting will burn through units at a frightening pace.
Yep, that's modern warfare for you.
 

nektoman

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@Concord I want to share my idea about a campaign (not sure that it really be used but will explain it for a case if you will run not only urban campaign). I am an artillery fun and had thoughts about how to reflect in CM artillery's work in opened terrain. Especially when we know that modern heavy arty systems have at least 15 km range. In Syria and Donbass holding hills is the head condition for success, and in most cases strong defence depends on artillery's work.

My idea is to have several points named 'hill' on the campaign map. These are the points where a player controls his artillery strikes in the battles. Every "Hill"has its zone of control. It means that in every hex around it we have several TRPs - the further the less. These zones can interfere, so both sides can have TRPs on the same map during the battle. Of course it doesn't mean that we can't use artillery outside these zones.

I'm not sure that air assets are really needed in the campaign. Modern warfare is IMO difficult enough without them too.
 

Lethaface

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@Concord I want to share my idea about a campaign (not sure that it really be used but will explain it for a case if you will run not only urban campaign). I am an artillery fun and had thoughts about how to reflect in CM artillery's work in opened terrain. Especially when we know that modern heavy arty systems have at least 15 km range. In Syria and Donbass holding hills is the head condition for success, and in most cases strong defence depends on artillery's work.

My idea is to have several points named 'hill' on the campaign map. These are the points where a player controls his artillery strikes in the battles. Every "Hill"has its zone of control. It means that in every hex around it we have several TRPs - the further the less. These zones can interfere, so both sides can have TRPs on the same map during the battle. Of course it doesn't mean that we can't use artillery outside these zones.

I'm not sure that air assets are really needed in the campaign. Modern warfare is IMO difficult enough without them too.
Interesting idea to make hill's strategically worth more. Your right that modern warfare is already deadly without air. I think players will already feel not good if they loose a company of infantry from the fires of a couple of 155 batteries :D
 

Concord

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Thanks @Rico for the insights into your campaign ideas!

How did you decide which kind of specialised platoons would be available for each battalion?
Was it based on any historical or fictional narrative? Or just random?

How did you plan on doing the beancounting?
I assume that the GM would have to go into the game files for every match and manually count casualties in every unit?
 

Concord

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@Concord I want to share my idea about a campaign (not sure that it really be used but will explain it for a case if you will run not only urban campaign). I am an artillery fun and had thoughts about how to reflect in CM artillery's work in opened terrain. Especially when we know that modern heavy arty systems have at least 15 km range. In Syria and Donbass holding hills is the head condition for success, and in most cases strong defence depends on artillery's work.

My idea is to have several points named 'hill' on the campaign map. These are the points where a player controls his artillery strikes in the battles. Every "Hill"has its zone of control. It means that in every hex around it we have several TRPs - the further the less. These zones can interfere, so both sides can have TRPs on the same map during the battle. Of course it doesn't mean that we can't use artillery outside these zones.

I'm not sure that air assets are really needed in the campaign. Modern warfare is IMO difficult enough without them too.
That's a great idea @nektoman.

In fact, picturing it in my mind has clarified some ideas for me on how to handle the campaign map.
 
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