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Pallebahtep
Guest
I have come back now and will pick the game up again tonight.
[SCENARIO] FGM - 101st at Normandy
- Thread starter Bootie
- Start date
Ok, back on track with this ... and for first time I am getting a sense of maybe gaining the upper hand -- still no real idea of enemy casualties, but have spotted quite a few paras pulling back and seem to have caught quite a few in the hedgerow gaps with sneakily emplaced heavy MG's.
So far no penetration spotted to the rear victory locations ... the paras have a foothold in and near the small village church ... gotta get them out of there to avoid having it contested.
Good fight ... maybe as I commented earlier, too much opportunity for Germans to set up good, orderly defensive positions.
So far no penetration spotted to the rear victory locations ... the paras have a foothold in and near the small village church ... gotta get them out of there to avoid having it contested.
Good fight ... maybe as I commented earlier, too much opportunity for Germans to set up good, orderly defensive positions.
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Pallebahtep
Guest
Right - I think that's it. This fight is over for the Americans, we have been well beaten. Not all squads are running yet, but ammo is running out and morale is breaking badly.
Some observations:
1: It's been a good fight, I thought I was in it for a good while and when finally making it to the hedgerow at the village edge I thought that might be it. Rico seemed to position his forces really well, concentrating a lot of firepower in the village and at the manor - always in good hard cover. Well played.
2: Rico, I'm not sure if you are aware or if it was intended - but your mortar barrage that hit the reverse slope of the hill took out my mortars as an effective force
That hurt...
Some observations on the map - these are not meant to be moans, just observations from the loser
1: The defender seems to have an abundance of hard/soft cover positions which makes suppression very difficult. The positions are layered so that for example when the attacker reaches the hedgerow (badly bloodied) the defender can move his mgs to layers of other cover.
2: The approaches to the town are such that reaching the town itself comes at a heavy cost. My forces were depleted and shaken to the point that I could not establish fire superiority. A few teams breached the town but the support behind the hedgerows turned tail under sustained mg fire. Ammo at this point is nearly exhausted.
3: There is a lot of foilage on the map but it offers little cover, making flanking moves difficult. My attempt was mown down by mg fire from the manor concrete wall while still up on the hill section on the right hand side. (I flanked with one platoon while three went for the village) This flanking move might have taken the rear objectives, but the intent was to flank the manor and town... bad move
4: One point to note is that Rico was never able/required to put the 88 into use. So these points above just demonstrate how soundly beaten I was.
Conclusion:
I loved the fight and would love another crack at it! I would play it a bit better I think, but probably not much. As the attacker I feel it is a difficult map and that the forces may need a little adjustment now that the axis are regulars rather than green. See what the other testers say about it.
Thank you for the scenario Bootie, and thank you for the game Rico - Well played.
Palle
Some observations:
1: It's been a good fight, I thought I was in it for a good while and when finally making it to the hedgerow at the village edge I thought that might be it. Rico seemed to position his forces really well, concentrating a lot of firepower in the village and at the manor - always in good hard cover. Well played.
2: Rico, I'm not sure if you are aware or if it was intended - but your mortar barrage that hit the reverse slope of the hill took out my mortars as an effective force
That hurt...Some observations on the map - these are not meant to be moans, just observations from the loser
1: The defender seems to have an abundance of hard/soft cover positions which makes suppression very difficult. The positions are layered so that for example when the attacker reaches the hedgerow (badly bloodied) the defender can move his mgs to layers of other cover.
2: The approaches to the town are such that reaching the town itself comes at a heavy cost. My forces were depleted and shaken to the point that I could not establish fire superiority. A few teams breached the town but the support behind the hedgerows turned tail under sustained mg fire. Ammo at this point is nearly exhausted.
3: There is a lot of foilage on the map but it offers little cover, making flanking moves difficult. My attempt was mown down by mg fire from the manor concrete wall while still up on the hill section on the right hand side. (I flanked with one platoon while three went for the village) This flanking move might have taken the rear objectives, but the intent was to flank the manor and town... bad move
4: One point to note is that Rico was never able/required to put the 88 into use. So these points above just demonstrate how soundly beaten I was.
Conclusion:
I loved the fight and would love another crack at it! I would play it a bit better I think, but probably not much. As the attacker I feel it is a difficult map and that the forces may need a little adjustment now that the axis are regulars rather than green. See what the other testers say about it.
Thank you for the scenario Bootie, and thank you for the game Rico - Well played.
Palle
Yep... finished this and looks like I managed to give the paratroopers a bloody nose
I set up a deeply layered defense to soak up enemy pressure and was even prepared to give up parts of the village and then counter-atatck with a squad i kept back as reserve.
Also had heavy MG's covering prominent hedge gaps ... at times I set the MG42's to area fire on those gaps, even when there no enemy visible (I have enough ammo) to deny them access.
Only asset I wasted, was my 88 ... wasn't too sure what to do with that with limited LOS.
I think too easy for Germans to set up a pretty much prepared defense ... not sure how to make the German set up a little more reflective of chaos caused by enemy paradrops.
I enjoyed the fight ... challenging to get the defense right and got a bit nervous at times as when the paras got fire on my guys, it was painful. Mortar shells exploding next to hedgerows is not pretty.
I set up a deeply layered defense to soak up enemy pressure and was even prepared to give up parts of the village and then counter-atatck with a squad i kept back as reserve.
Also had heavy MG's covering prominent hedge gaps ... at times I set the MG42's to area fire on those gaps, even when there no enemy visible (I have enough ammo) to deny them access.
Only asset I wasted, was my 88 ... wasn't too sure what to do with that with limited LOS.
I think too easy for Germans to set up a pretty much prepared defense ... not sure how to make the German set up a little more reflective of chaos caused by enemy paradrops.
I enjoyed the fight ... challenging to get the defense right and got a bit nervous at times as when the paras got fire on my guys, it was painful. Mortar shells exploding next to hedgerows is not pretty.
That could help ... so the German CO has to rush men into defence positions ... possibly caught off-guard.
You could also mix up German unit quality ... make the HvyMG units and the platoon HQ's Veteran ... but some of the squads regular and green, so making things trickier and challenging?
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Pallebahtep
Guest
I would agree with the above.
Looking at the end of action report I was surprised to find that the German units amounted to something like 30-40 more men than the paras.
Given the bloodletting that happens before the americans can get a significant amount of fire onto the village itself I would reckon the experience mix and/or numbers of defenders could be adjusted.
Locking set up zones could work, but don't players find most enjoyment in having the freedom to set up amazing defensive positions? I don't know, just a thought.
Looking at the end of action report I was surprised to find that the German units amounted to something like 30-40 more men than the paras.
Given the bloodletting that happens before the americans can get a significant amount of fire onto the village itself I would reckon the experience mix and/or numbers of defenders could be adjusted.
Locking set up zones could work, but don't players find most enjoyment in having the freedom to set up amazing defensive positions?
I don't know, just a thought.
I may be late to this party, but Facman was offline for a bit. We just finished our test game. As the Americans, I felt that I did not have sufficient muscle to get this job done. My arty contingent consisted of 3 60mm mortars. So there was no preconditioning of the village before the assault. Also, I did not have any HE support, and the Germans had some offboard arty. Consequently, I took massive casualties before I could position myself into jump off positions. Then, once I started to take the town, my losses really started to mount quickly. Even time I approached a building, Jody seemed to have more men than me. So I was never able to gain tactical superiority at any location.
My suggestion would be to either lessen the number of German defenders, on the one hand, or provide the Americans with some HE support, on the other hand. That HE support can either take the form of some offboard arty or perhaps some SPA units ... even if they show up as reinforcements later in the game.
Otherwise, awesome map. If the US had numbers, the options are plentiful.
Thanks for doing this Bootie.
My suggestion would be to either lessen the number of German defenders, on the one hand, or provide the Americans with some HE support, on the other hand. That HE support can either take the form of some offboard arty or perhaps some SPA units ... even if they show up as reinforcements later in the game.
Otherwise, awesome map. If the US had numbers, the options are plentiful.
Thanks for doing this Bootie.
On the whole I agree with Nort's review of the end game situation, though with a caveat.
While I held the village in the end, it was with seriously damaged troops. All were Broken, with serious casualties in most of the squads. Many had only one or two troopers left. Had he not walked into my offboard mortar support early in the game, that took out most of a platoon, He might very well have denied me possession of the village, and possibly captured one or both of the victory locations in my rear. Had my mortar fire not been as lucky as it was, once again he retains some of his firepower and strength, and I am hard pressed to hold my ground under the merciless American Paratrooper firepower.
Possibly removing the German offboard support, would provide the balance to the scenario. Another possible balancing act, would be to have more victory locations, spread across the board. Thereby making the Germans have to maneuver to secure them all, thus giving the Americans a chance to spread the defense out some.
In this I whole heartedly agree with Nort, a fun scenario regardless of the outcome.
It was a blast to play against one of my favorite opponents here at FGM, and to have the opportunity to pay him back, for a devastating arty barrage that blew me out of the water earlier in our gaming history.
While I held the village in the end, it was with seriously damaged troops. All were Broken, with serious casualties in most of the squads. Many had only one or two troopers left. Had he not walked into my offboard mortar support early in the game, that took out most of a platoon, He might very well have denied me possession of the village, and possibly captured one or both of the victory locations in my rear. Had my mortar fire not been as lucky as it was, once again he retains some of his firepower and strength, and I am hard pressed to hold my ground under the merciless American Paratrooper firepower.
Possibly removing the German offboard support, would provide the balance to the scenario. Another possible balancing act, would be to have more victory locations, spread across the board. Thereby making the Germans have to maneuver to secure them all, thus giving the Americans a chance to spread the defense out some.
In this I whole heartedly agree with Nort, a fun scenario regardless of the outcome.
It was a blast to play against one of my favorite opponents here at FGM, and to have the opportunity to pay him back, for a devastating arty barrage that blew me out of the water earlier in our gaming history.
Funny, I remember that barrage as well. If I recall, I caught your blokes in a sunken road, between hedgerows they could not move through, with two 81 mm mortar barrages landing simultaneously. Ah yes. Sometimes, its the little things.
Thanks for the feedback guys... I will pull the Germany artillery support... realistically I don't think they would have time to zero it in (in the context of this battle) and I will release it as such and see what happens. I still have work to do on the single player version (setting AI plans which I have never done before). Then I can start another.
Aye, that was the one, a barrage I shall not soon forget.
I still have work to do on the single player version (setting AI plans which I have never done before). Then I can start another.
Have fun.
IMO, the AI plans are the most frustrating part of the experience of scenario designing, right up there with trying to get a map to look right when you only have 90 and 45 degree angles for roads/fences etc. Edit: Should have said if you want me to test an AI plan as a blind player send it my way. Will return the favour for you H2H testing 'Three Patrol Action.' Any update on that front?
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agusto
Guest
As you may remember from earlier ITT, i would also be available for testing this scenario H2H. Send me a message when it is ready.
EDIT: i meant testing the scenario vs. the AI. Dont know why i wrote H2H.
EDIT: i meant testing the scenario vs. the AI. Dont know why i wrote H2H.
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