Assessing the Russian Military Campaign in Ukraine (so far)

[Bones26]

On a positive note I like your other topic on this forum where you post links to different websites about the military situation around the world. Those links seem to be a fair representation of what is going on in the world and does not seem to be biased. However, here in this thread, the stuff you post is almost all pro-Russian (maybe all?). I don't have a problem with a pro-Russian forum poster. I think it is interesting and we could use more of them. Its kind of boring to have everybody of the exact same opinion all the time.

My issue is when somebody pretends to be a fair arbitrator of the facts but almost exclusively makes posts, excuses, whataboutism, etc. favoring one side. I think its okay to have an opinion and even pick a side but be open and honest about it. I admit I'm biased against Russia. After seeing the photos, videos and interviews of the various Russian war crimes & atrocities in Bucha and other places I support Ukraine. Just be honest. Its generally easier anyways.

I don't mind that you refer to the Russian / Ukraine WAR as a Special Military Operation (SMO). That's what the Russians and many of their supporters call it. In fact, I think people living in Russia, get in trouble for calling the Russian invasion a war. You live in Canada so you should be okay referring to it as a war if you wanted to. Maybe you actually do think it is a SMO and not a war. Good for you. Your entitled to your opinion. I was just pointing out that the use of that phrase was another indicator, along with the totality of your posts in this thread, that you are pro-Russian. As opposed to a fair arbitrator of the facts.

You pointed out that you made the below statement:
“So may I humbly suggest that it would be best for all us to dissuade ourselves from believing there are any good or moral actors involved in this current conflict, other than those unfortunate civilians caught in its maws. Be it Russia, NATO, the U.S. or Ukraine, they all share in the genesis of & continuation of this tragedy.”

After seeing the photos, videos and interviews of the various Russian war crimes & atrocities in Bucha and other places I do think there are good and bad actors in this WAR. The Russians committed atrocities against those unfortunate civilians caught in the maws of the Russian WAR. Its also notable that you said NATO & the US are not good or moral actors in this. I think it is good they, to include your country of Canada, are helping Ukraine to fight back against Russia. If the Ukrainians had not been able to defeat the Russians at the outskirts of Kyiv and push them back past Bucha we would not know as much about the Russian war crimes & atrocities committed in Bucha.

Then, you can't help yourself and you pile on the anti-Ukraine, anti-NATO, anti-Zelensky, anti-US talking points in your above post. You Sir, are not a fair arbitrator of the facts. Where are your pages of posts condemning Russian war crimes & atrocities in Bucha and other places? How about just condemning Russia's WAR against Ukraine?

I think it would be easier and more transparent if you admitted that you are an obvious supporter of the Russian Special Military Operation (SMO) in Ukraine. I would be happy to discuss said operation with you.

Cheers !

@MOS:96B2P

In light of the persistence of your continuing efforts to smear me as a Russian sympathizer without still ever providing evidence from any of my postings in support of your assertions, I am reminded of the old adage that, “opinions are like arseholes – everybody has one”.

However, if you are prepared to bring forth any evidence from any of my postings that would buttress your opinion that I have at any time implicitly expressed my support for either side in this conflict and more specifically stated my support for any of Russia’s actions, or that I have included any factual errors in my postings, then please share them with me and I would be most willing to consider your argument and correct any misstatements. Absent that however your continuing red baiting will be seen for what it is, just so much posturing and devoid of any intellectual honesty.

Insofar as condemning the reported atrocities committed by Russia in this proxy war. I of course like I assume any other sentient right-thinking person would, unequivocally condemns that act and any other such acts committed against civilians or against combatants of any side that contravene the laws of war, be it in the current, past or any future conflicts. However, I wasn’t aware that such an obvious sentiment needed to be stated, or that it was my obligation to comment on every facet of this campaign.

Finally, I do not see myself nor have I ever claimed to be a fair arbitrator of facts. My efforts through my postings have been simply to attempt to engage in friendly discussions with fellow members of this site who I presume share a common interest in military gaming & related matters, military history and in the context of this particular thread, an interest in assessing the campaign thus far from what I assumed was all perspectives. If my efforts to introduce other reporting, commentary and / or opinions that I trust might enhance in some small fashion that intent and help nourish such assessments, have offended your sensibilities, then as my daughter would remark…” That sounds more like a you problem, than a me problem.”

Cheers!

 

[Badger73]

Hi! @Bones26! It is nice to meet fellow Russian! Nice pro-RU videos of HistoryLegends you post. I am still watching the heavily pro-ru video regarding Lysichansk.

Still good to say hi to fellow RU Bro! Just wanted to ask why are you hiding your RU roots? Yes, Bro, I know your profile says you are from Eastern Townships, Quebec, Canada.

But look at your writing:

This long-convoluted paragraph-like sentence is typical for an average native Russian-speaker. I know because I am native Russian-speaker. This is one of the main RU problems when learning English language:


Maybe you are ashamed you are writing from Russia? No shame Bro, because it is better to be honest. I mean RU immigrants take English lessons because you cannot write so convoluted in English speaking business correspondence. I know, Bro, because I did it. Wrote whole texts like you. Wasnt' fun. Had to take English 101 despite my rather high (for RU) level. KISS Principle, Bro, RU teachers forgot to explain it to you. I know because they forgot to explain it to me too.

Look at this beauty:

It is literally how we, Russians, write in Russian and in English after studying English only in Russia and staying in Russia. I do not know why you want to hide this fact.

Anyway, glad to see you here, RU Bro!

LOL!!!

To go off topic for a moment, this is one of the best examples of abusing Stylometric methods since questioning whether Shakespeare wrote Shakespeare . . . .

Anyone who doesn't believe that a native English speaker can't write long, convoluted paragraph-like sentences never studied University level political science taught by third-rate academicians (or read one of my own political science college papers for that matter either) . . .

Well, maybe being an American doesn't really count as a native English speaker . . .
Anyway, this is one of the funniest pieces of drivel or possibly tongue-in-cheek irony I can recall posted at FGM . . .

 

[Septic Limb]

I'm hoping that peace talks will be allowed soon. The AFU's latest counterattack has been stopped at the river. Russia along with the DPR and LPR are methodically taking bite after bite of territory. In the US, public support isn't what it once was and some are starting to remember that we were lied to about Iraq and Afghanistan so maybe we are being lied to about Ukraine. Also, more people care about high gas prices and rising inflation than what's happening around the world and are getting pissed that we keep sending aid packages overseas. I've even seen a story in either the Washington Post or NPR hinting that Ukraine was/still is one of the most corrupt nations in Europe. This is important because both news outlets are mouthpieces for our government.
I think that Zelensky will be eaten by his own or made into a scapegoat for the West but either way, hopefully, Ukraine will be allowed to make a peace deal.

 

[Grigb]

Anyone who doesn't believe that a native English speaker can't write long, convoluted paragraph-like sentences never studied University level political science taught by third-rate academicians (or read one of my own political science college papers for that matter either) . . .

You do realize that you yourself admitted that your convoluted writing was part of your education? As I said my student's papers were also as convoluted as this guy writing. However, the University was teaching an according to American program (had partnership with US university) and severely discouraged such convoluted writing enforcing KISS. Do you claim that US educational institutions do not teach KISS? (Average RU institutions do not.)
We are not in an education institution now. We are not students writing student papers. Compare how you write here

Anyone who doesn't believe that a native English speaker can't write long, convoluted paragraph-like sentences never studied University level political science taught by third-rate academicians (or read one of my own political science college papers for that matter either) . . .

With how supposedly non-Russian write here:

However, if you are prepared to bring forth any evidence from any of my postings that would buttress your opinion that I have at any time implicitly expressed my support for either side in this conflict and more specifically stated my support for any of Russia’s actions, or that I have included any factual errors in my postings, then please share them with me and I would be most willing to consider your argument and correct any misstatements. Absent that however your continuing red baiting will be seen for what it is, just so much posturing and devoid of any intellectual honesty.

In your comment you wrote 4 sentences with 25 words per sentence. This guy in his last comment wrote 9 sentences with 40 words per sentence. This guy uses almost twice the number of words than you. You yourself do not write in the same convoluted style.

BTW I easily understand him because he simply writes according to Russian rules. His writing looks convoluted in English, but it is extremely clear in Russian. That's how we write in Russian.

 

[Grigb]

@MOS:96B2P

In light of the persistence of your continuing efforts to smear me as a Russian sympathizer without still ever providing evidence from any of my postings in support of your assertions

What a beauty of Russian writing. RU language is poetic even if it is written using English words.

But lets looks at @Bones26 posts. They are full of HistoryLegend videos. So, let's look at that Lisichansk video.

Latest observations for your evaluation.
[LYSYCHANSK HAS FALLEN]

Cheers !

Let's look at this video Pro-RU lies
0:58 Lies that Kremlin got one of two republics they wanted:
Truth: Let's look at what Kremlin declared before the operation - we are going to listen to Girkin [my notes of what he says]

Before Second phase (Donbass offensive) RU propaganda claimed that UKR army will be destroyed in Donbass region and Luhansk with Donbass territory will be freed. In reality RU managed to free only minor part of Luhansk region, almost nothing in Donetsk (just some tactical gains, mostly village and no cities except Popasna. But Popasna assault started in March long before second phase. And Volnovakha was freed in 1st phase). According to approximate best case calculation - only 1/3 of what was planned was freed.

Right at the start of the video that HistoryLegend guy stated insane pro-RU BS

1:33 Lies thar residents of Lysichansk welcomed RU.
Truth: Let's look at what RU soldiers writes about Lysichansk in reality:

July 2022
Lisichansk, Luhansk People's Republic.
Personal impression of the author of the channel about the city:
Despite the fact that the city is under our control, the city itself is as hostile as possible.
The reason for the hostility is that almost all the young people were involved in ter.defence AFU in one way or another. Some with personal direct participation, some as an accomplice.
With the retreat of the Armed Forces of Ukraine from the city, the youth also left.
In the video - the only representative of the youth that I saw in the city. [lone young woman]
It is noteworthy that they all went to Dnepropetrovsk.
At the same time, their relatives, acquaintances, friends (including those whom we killed during the offensive) remained in the city. And they actively and comprehensively provide information and other support to the Ukrainian DRG [Recon and Diversion Group] operating in the city, which, in turn, kills the militia posts at night.
Such murals as in the photo are all over the city. [Glory to UKR + UKR poetry I could not translate]
The residents themselves shout obscenities in the wake and show indecent gestures.

We are less than two minutes into the video and the guy already stated two insane pro-RU lies.

3:19 Lies UKR needed to withdraw from Severodonets and Lysichansk two month ago
Truth: SD and LS are part of UKR predpolie - Foward defensive zone in front of Main Line of Resistance (Slavyansk-Kramatorsk agglomeration). The guy literally advocated UKR to abandon predpolie to allow RU to reach UKR MLR with minimum losses and minimum waste of time. He literally pushes for RU victory.

4:44 Lies trying to inflate UKR casualties. Let's look at the same Girkin assessment:

7/8 of UKR army did not participate in Severodonetsk-Lisichansk battle. No formations of Battalion or bigger were destroyed completely. All 6 brigades managed to retreat to the next defensive line despite serious losses and losses of all vehicles

However even Girkin assessment of supposedly high vehicle losses is inflated. This is what RU found there.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544670686760812544

1 BRDM
1 Cossack
1 Kraz
1 Zil
1 Gazelle
1 Vaz passenger car...
1 some kind of flatbed truck

It was so bad that RU propagandists tried to inflate UKR losses with old vehicles. Even ordinary RU did not believe them (it was so obvious fake)

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545368449135902720

On the left is RU propaganda video with old vehicles. Translation

CAPTURED EQUIPMENT IN LISICHANSK
Well, [you] asked, where is the equipment that
Ukrainians abandoned in Lisichansk? Here. This
is only a small part of the [vehicles] collected in the city and its
surroundings.
Tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, British Saxons, howitzers,
Grads, SAM... many are already with tactical
signs Z.
And tons of weapons. Grenade launchers of all NATO
stripes, machine guns, drones... Many
samples already have tags of Lugansk units, to
which trophies have been transferred for combat service.

On the right RU dissatisfied comments. Translation of comments:

Well, judging by what I see, they really
brought up the levak [fake] and give it out as [captured during] Lisichansk [operation].
The first tank from Kremennaya, April
the second with Popasna, April
And freshly painted. Probably
most of the [vehicles] are indeed really captured, but
maybe not [RU vehicles claimed as UKR].
In short they are trying to feed us sh*t from shovel....

Well, the initiative commanders put on
previously taken trophies that took part in storming
Lisichansk, to the excebition, what
exactly did it change? Pain for
riveters [users who demads everything to be accurete 100%]? Was the Popasnyansky tank
showen earlier at all? It is necessary to understand how
this “exhibition" is described by
the organizers, and not from the Kots [RU propagandis], which is the
still...

And why do they do it at all? For the press?
So 10 units in total is generally nothing. In any case, an unpleasant
situation. Now it [excibition] will be dragged through [UKR] Telegram [channels] with
stories that [we] defeated shock tank regiment named after Kuchma [Kuchma is long retired UKR president. Obviously Kuchma regiment does not exists. He complained that UKR will laught again at RU for claims of destruction of non-existing unit]

As you can see despite RU claims of UKR great vehicle losses they failed to produce anything of significant. It is all RU BS.

At this point I stopped watching video as obvious RU propaganda.

Now, back you @Bones26.
On May 29 you posted RU propaganda first time - the first time you bothered writing something.
On June 29th, you posted comment consisting of only RU propaganda video
On July 5th, you again posted comment consisting of only RU propaganda video
On July 25th, you again posted comment consisting of only RU propaganda video
On July 27th, you again posted comment consisting of only RU propaganda video

As you can see, a significant part of your job here is to spread RU propaganda videos.

You are RU sympathizer, who literally write English with Russian rules and post RU propaganda videos. And you still failed to come up with excuse why do you write like Russian.

 

[Grigb]

I'm hoping that peace talks will be allowed soon.

Interesting opinion. So, you are ok with RU murdering and torturing UKR after the war on captured lands? Do you want me to quote the description of torture conveyor RU organized in 2014 captured UKR lands? BTW you will not be able to claim it UKR propaganda because it comes directly from RU side (they basically tortured their own RU guy but realized their mistake and released him unlike UKRs prisoners. The RU guy got very upset and described it in detail including that UKR locals were main target).

Bucha massacre was not an isolated incident. It was just the beginning.

 

[Septic Limb]

Interesting opinion. So, you are ok with RU murdering and torturing UKR after the war on captured lands? Do you want me to quote the description of torture conveyor RU organized in 2014 captured UKR lands? BTW you will not be able to claim it UKR propaganda because it comes directly from RU side (they basically tortured their own RU guy but realized their mistake and released him unlike UKRs prisoners. The RU guy got very upset and described it in detail including that UKR locals were main target).

Bucha massacre was not an isolated incident. It was just the beginning.

Sleeping like a baby over here.

 

[Grigb]

Sleeping like a baby over here.

Exactly. You wish RU would get what they want (peace deal) to get back to murdering and torturing Ukrainians. And it does not bother you - you are sleeping like a baby.

Sleep my baby, sleep while I read to you RU fairy tale:

Such "hanging", by the handcuffed hands and by the left knee with a rope, first exhausts the victim trying to lean back against the wall, arching his back all the time, and then, when the exhausted person just hangs on the handcuffs and rope, begins to cause him unbearable, I believe, even under strong drug pain. Of course, I was not a spy and was not under "drug", so in the end, on the evening of May 11, to the sounds of "The Russians are coming" performed by Bichevskaya and "Get up, the huge country!" I was just tearing my right hand out of the handcuff like an animal caught in a trap, ready to bite off my hand if I could reach it with my teeth. Then I was delirious, then I lost consciousness, then I was delirious again, shouting in delirium, and I, lying under the bars, was beaten on the left shin until they were tired. On the left shin - because it was easier to reach it. Photos of the consequences, taken about a week after, already in Moscow, I then posted. The left arm suffered less, it was "saved" by the fact that the left knee took over part of the weight, the right arm was very bad, but more or less recovered, although not without relapses. I'm gradually losing my left knee, but these are just details.

 

[Aurelius]

I think it's time this thread is locked up. We are entering full time war propaganda mode, and it is only going to get uglier.

 

[Grigb]

I think it's time this thread is locked up. We are entering full time war propaganda mode, and it is only going to get uglier.

Uglier than RU propaganda party you have here with RU propaganda operative posting here RU propaganda videos? And yet where I started to post cold hard facts you immediately declared them to be propaganda.

Very simple bet - you prove that I lie I delete my account. Otherwise, you state you are wrong, and my facts are facts.

Lets compare RU BS from @Bones26 with Igor Girkin [a Russian army veteran and former Federal Security Service (FSB) officer who played a key role in the annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation, and later the war in Donbas as an organizer of militant groups in the Donetsk People's Republic (DPR)] assessment regarding Donbass operation.

Donbass offensive Operation
• Before Second phase (Donbass offensive) RU propaganda claimed that UKR army will be destroyed in Donbass region and Luhansk with Donbass territory will be freed. In reality RU managed to free only minor part of Luhansk region, almost nothing in Donetsk (just some tactical gains, mostly village and no cities except Popasna. But Popasna assault started in March long before second phase. And Volnovakha was freed in 1 phase).
• According to approximate best case calculation - only 1/3 of what was planned was freed. On other hand UKR forced RU to fight battles that were advantageous to UKR - defensive battles based on prepared echeloned defensive positions conducted by most experienced UKR troops. [Girkin is upset that RU generals acted like brainless rams hitting prepared UKR brick walls instead of hitting where UKR is weakest]. Concludes that UKR forces conducted not very successful (even unsuccessful) defensive battle but manage to achieve some objectives - they preserved majority of frontline (from Ugledar till Avdeevka). They failed only at Northern flank but not catastrophically. No formations of Battalion or bigger were destroyed completely. All 6 brigades managed to retreat to the next defensive line despite serious losses and losses of all vehicles [questionable claim - RU struggling to produce video/photo of UKR serios vehicle losses]
• Result of Second phase cannot be compared even to Mariupol battle (where all defenders were either killed to taken POW)
• [His contradictory statements about UKR defeat/UKR achieving its goals is probably because he cannot publicly admit serious UKR success. As I understood he got warning for defeatist talks]
• UKR used a lot of TD units to close gaps. Those units suffered significant losses.
• 7/8 of UKR army did not participate in Severodonetsk-Lisichansk battle
• UKR did what Grikin did in 2014 - he saved his people by retreating from Slavyansk and was able to hold the rest of territory.
• During 2 months UKR army retreat 30-40-50 km max in best [for RU] cases. If UKR will retreat like this till Kiev this will be a really long war.

Who is posting facts and who is posting RU propaganda?

 

[Aurelius]

Since you are posting here with malicious intent, I am not going to answer you. My plea was to the moderators.

 

[Grigb]

Since you are posting here with malicious intent, I am not going to answer you. My plea was to the moderators.

And my malicious intent is what? Scare you with facts?

Today s Girkin assessment (warning - scary facts)

On the situation at the front

Now there are two most "hot spots": the Donetsk front and the central part of the Kherson Front (along the Ingulets river).

On the Donetsk front, our troops achieved tactical successes in two days of offensive battles (the most significant - the day before yesterday, on the first day of the offensive). We managed to advance in two places: to the north of Maryinka UKR fled from the mine vent shaft and ours occupied this defensive node. We also managed to capture a number of field strongpoints between Krasnogorovka and Peski. A slight advance took place yesterday in the area of Avdiivka.
However, the front of the AFU is not broken through anywhere, the wedges into the enemy's defense are relatively shallow. (For now, at least). The AFU is suffering heavy losses from massive artillery fire. Our losses (as I am informed) are significantly less and this is already good.
The enemy launched another missile attack on ammunition depots tonight and in the morning. Objects in the Ilovaysk area and in the city itself are hit and detonated.
In general, as I wrote earlier, I do not expect serious successes in this direction - the enemy is defending on long-term positions echeloned deep, and our infantry is very few to carry out deep wedges after initial successes. They will "slowly gnaw through" until they run into a solid urban area, and then - bloody street battles for both sides. As a result - "stucking" at the next line of defense.

On the Kherson front: confirmation of statements that our troops completely recaptured Andreevka and threw the AFU behind the river.Ingulets - did not receive it yesterday. Fierce fighting is now continuing in this area. The enemy is launching artillery and rocket attacks on the village of Chkalovo (in the depth of our defense, the direction to Berislav), which is probably the closest operational target of this AFU offensive. Our artillery and aviation, in turn, "iron" the front and rear facilities of the enemy.

The day before yesterday, yesterday and today, sporadic shelling of Russian territory by enemy artillery continued. Border military units and settlements in the Kursk and Bryansk regions were shelled.

No information was received from other sites.

P.S. To the request regarding "why don't I comment on the release of Novolugansky?" - I answer that there is now a secondary direction, the enemy left the village after the surrender of the Uglegorsk thermal power plant without persistent fighting, clearing the resulting tactical "bag". It is much more important to fight in the Artemivsk direction, but there - in the best case - after some time fighting will begin on the outskirts of the city, turned by the enemy into the main line of defense.

 

[A Canadian Cat]

entering full time war propaganda mode

Entering? This thread has been like that for a while. Seem like you are just upset that someone came here to challenge yours and Bones opinions and instead of offering rebuttals or other solid information you are crying foul to the admins.

I do agree this thread should be locked up but not becuase of @MOS:96B2P or @Grigb 's posts...

 

[Aurelius]

Am I the one that is upset? Or is it you? I haven't addressed anyone personally, yet you find me culpable of it. Thank you for taking the time from your day and life to address me personally about a situation not a single one of us can influence.

 

[Grigb]

Update from Girkin VK page [RU social network]

According to the clarifying data, the enemy on the Kherson front continues to hold a bridgehead in the area of the settlements of Andreevka and Lozovaya (located on the southern bank of the river Ingulets) and controls both of these villages, and also continues attempts to expand the bridgehead, regain control of the village of Belogorka (to the east, above the Ingulets River) and capture the village of Blagodatovka (downstream).
The enemy conducts active artillery fire, uses numerous light UAVs to strike our forward positions, in the area of the settlement of Davydov Brody uses assault aircraft (single "SU").
Our troops are preparing to repel the upcoming enemy offensive (while the enemy's activity on the bridgehead through Ingulets is considered as a local attack, quite possibly with distracting purposes). Artillery and aircraft strike at the enemy.

 

[MOS:96B2P]

I think it's time this thread is locked up. We are entering full time war propaganda mode, and it is only going to get uglier.

Or we could just have an adult conversation. There is nothing wrong with hearing both sides of the story. In fact we should intend to listen to both sides and make up our own minds. Nobody was calling for the thread to be locked when Bones26 was telling one side of the story. Why lock it now that he has push back? As long as we remain civil it can be a learning experience. Those posters that don't can be temporarily banned. It would be unfortunate if the choice was: post mostly Pro-Russian stuff because if you post pro-Ukrainian stuff the thread is locked. That's generally not how we do it in the West.

 

[Aurelius]

Or we could just have an adult conversation. There is nothing wrong with hearing both sides of the story. In fact we should intend to listen to both sides and make up our own minds. Nobody was calling for the thread to be locked when Bones26 was telling one side of the story. Why lock it now that he has push back? As long as we remain civil it can be a learning experience. Those posters that don't can be temporarily banned. It would be unfortunate if the choice was: post mostly Pro-Russian stuff because if you post pro-Ukrainian stuff the thread is locked. That's generally not how we do it in the West.

So - assuming someone was Russian, based on the way they write, and then based on that assumption (which is in no way verified) accusing someone is pro-Russian and bashing him with rumors, anecdotes and unsubstantiated claims - is considered to be pushback? That is amusing.

And since I made a long sentence with a weird structure - am I now viable to be considered a Russian?

 

[MOS:96B2P]

Entering? This thread has been like that for a while. Seem like you are just upset that someone came here to challenge yours and Bones opinions and instead of offering rebuttals or other solid information you are crying foul to the admins.

I do agree this thread should be locked up but not becuase of @MOS:96B2P or @Grigb 's posts...

I think how propaganda works (at least in part) is that one side pushes their propaganda and shut the other side down. Russian propaganda has been pushed here for months. Now that the other side is getting involved and bringing interesting fact and figures to the discussion they start calls to lock it up. While more work for a moderator this could be a very informative thread. Of course some will probably intentionally act very badly in an attempt to get it locked up. Probably another tactic of authoritarian states and their actors. We are very fortunate to live in the West and just have occasional minor contact with authoritarian stuff.

Expose it to the light of day and talk about it.

 

[MOS:96B2P]

So - assuming someone was Russian, based on the way they write, and then based on that assumption (which is in no way verified) accusing someone is pro-Russian and bashing him with rumors, anecdotes and unsubstantiated claims - is considered to be pushback? That is amusing.

And since I made a long sentence with a weird structure - am I now viable to be considered a Russian?

No, my friend you are not Russian but Serbian IIRC. I think there is a close connection between Russia and some Serbians. Didn't Russia support Serbia in the 1990s with the troubles there?

I have no problem with you supporting Russia. I think its interesting and value your opinion. As far as I know you have always been open and honest about your position. You never pretended to be a fair, unbiased arbitrator of the facts. You and I are both biased on opposite side of this discussion. No reason we can't have a civil discussion about it.

 

[Aurelius]

No, my friend you are not Russian but Serbian IIRC. I think there is a close connection between Russia and some Serbians. Didn't Russia support Serbia in the 1990s with the troubles there?

I have no problem with you supporting Russia. I think its interesting and value your opinion. As far as I know you have always been open and honest about your position. You never pretended to be a fair, unbiased arbitrator of the facts. You and I are both biased on opposite side of this discussion. No reason we can't have a civil discussion about it.

No, no one supported us. We were the European Rhodesians. Under the watchful eye of Russian Federation, FR Yugoslavia was sanctioned by the UN, Croatia was recognized as an independent state, arms were given to every side that was not Serbian, and FR Yugoslavia (although being a founding member of the OUN) was expelled from the OUN. The only overt Russian action in support of Serbia/FR Yugoslavia was the road march of the VDV battalion (which was part of the peacekeeping force) from Bosnia to Slatina Air Base. The action was not authorized by the government of Russian Federation, and was the product of General Viktor Zavarzin (which were similar to the actions of General Alexander Lebed in Trans-Dniester). Before that, the only action was cancelation of the visit to the USA by prime minister Primakov, upon hearing about the NATO aggression over FR Yugoslavia.

But, those are the actions of governments. The fraternal bonds between our peoples are never going to be broken, and a Serb and a Russian will not see a friend in each other, but a brat/brother.

Returning to the subject - my question was rhetorical. The absurdity of such claims needs no further commenting.

As far as civil discussion is considered - I am open to it, I am not bothered by your views. I am an adult and I can accept that other people don't think like me. Some here have failed that test.

What bothers me is the ridiculous assumptions being made. Posting HistoryLegends is not anti-Ukrainian or pro-Russian. The channel itself is critical only of the reporting on the war, which at times has no connections with the reality. Similar trends of fantastical thinking exist on pro-Russian side, as well.